Controversial Batfam ideas

[The Cool Thatguy]

If she's wearing his symbol and being explicitly part of the brand as Batgirl, it kind of does depend on him to a degree. She's not a completely independent character unless you want to send her out into the DC universe completely divested from the Bat-verse. I think she has enough going for her that it could work, but a sizeable chunk of the audience seem to want her with the Batgirl mantle first and foremost.

Fair point. She works best as part of the Bat franchise, but her character is the least dependent on The Bat. Bruce and Babs only show up at the end

[John Venus]

The entire Kathy/Kate, Bette/Betty thing was really not fantastically done, IMO. Obviously it comes down to differing needs over 20+ (okay 60+) years of of comics, but it has resulted in a bit of a jumble - mostly later on. And certainly no worse than plenty of other jumbles, though that's hardly praise. I think it goes like this, but with comic books, I'm not sure I trust my analysis.

Firstly, Kathy Unrelated-to-Bruce and later-introduced niece Betty was simple.

Then there was no Kathy, and Bette became a hero on her own. Also simple, since pre-COIE wasn't considered canon anymore.

Then we had Kate Unrelated-to-Bruce and no Kathy. And that's where I tend to fall on the preference spectrum, since I perceive Kate as more important than Kathy, given number of appearances and her appearing in a era of more continuity and connectededness between titles. The only issues that really come up there is whether or not Kate is related to Bette and also that it results in Bette heroing long before Kate did (sort of like Donna was several years in and Diana a rookie in early post-COIE, but it doesn't bother me in the case of Kate and Bette, since they've become decoupled in my mind with Bette existing so long as Flamebird without Kate, even if not heavily used).

Then Kate becomes related to Bruce and thus has family money (which is certainly a contradiction from earlier when the money came from her stepmother). Bette turns out to be related to her (and ends up her sidekick, I guess - haven't read those - even though we saw her active years before Kate which really bugs me and turns into a bit of copy-Kate with a completely different personality than she had post-COIE, though she did copy Kathy originally, so there's still a Kathy=Kateish dynamnic), and so Bette was into a (non-blood) family member when she was crushing on Dick, which I don't care for. But then there's Kathy, and that's where I really do lose the plot.

I like the backstory that Dini came up with in Streets of Gotham where Martha came from a poor background. It doesn't contradict the idea of her being heir to a fortune since part of the backstory was that her father got swindled out of it.

I also feel that Kane is overrepresented in the Bat books and there isn't enough acknowledgement of Bill Finger. I would pull a Morrison meta commentary and reveal Martha is actually Martha Finger (or Martha Milton) and that the Kane's adopted her at some point. Then she went off of on her own and fell for Bruce. I would keep Kathy Kane, Kate Kane and Bette Kane all related with Kathy as Kate's aunt and Bette as Kathy's niece and Kate's cousin. That way you still maintain Martha's connection to them but you can also imply that there was some flirtation/history between Bruce and Kathy. Plus, you get a nice arc with the Kane's helping Martha and then decades later Martha's son helps Kate and inspires her to become Batwoman.

[SiegePerilous02]

I like the backstory that Dini came up with in Streets of Gotham where Martha came from a poor background. It doesn't contradict the idea of her being heir to a fortune since part of the backstory was that her father got swindled out of it.

I also feel that Kane is overrepresented in the Bat books and there isn't enough acknowledgement of Bill Finger. I would pull a Morrison meta commentary and reveal Martha is actually Martha Finger (or Martha Milton) and that the Kane's adopted her at some point. Then she went off of on her own and fell for Bruce. I would keep Kathy Kane, Kate Kane and Bette Kane all related with Kathy as Kate's aunt and Bette as Kathy's niece and Kate's cousin. That way you still maintain Martha's connection to them but you can also imply that there was some flirtation/history between Bruce and Kathy. Plus, you get a nice arc with the Kane's helping Martha and then decades later Martha's son helps Kate and inspires her to become Batwoman.

Think (hope) you mean Thomas

Agreed on the Finger stuff, that's actually a good idea.