Controversial Batfam ideas

[Stanlos]

The legacy discussion on the other board got me to wondering. Do Batfans not see Bruce aging out of the cowl or forcibly leaving due to death whether natural, accidental or being killed?

[PCN24454]

The legacy discussion on the other board got me to wondering. Do Batfans not see Bruce aging out of the cowl or forcibly leaving did to death whether natural, accidental or being killed?

Bruce-as-Batman seems to be the only thing people can agree on. Even those that think that Dick would be his best successor believe that they should be co-Batmans.

[Tzigone]

The legacy discussion on the other board got me to wondering. Do Batfans not see Bruce aging out of the cowl or forcibly leaving did to death whether natural, accidental or being killed?

I like old-school, emotionally healthy Bruce, who imagined he would retire some day. But today's Bruce is more likely to either die in the cowl or be forced into retirement by injury. But I'm not a legacy fan. Batman is a person, not a title. The others don't achieve legend status by taking on Bruce's mantle, but by making their own just as great. It's just that happens in a future we will never reach, because of how comics work.

I find the idea that (from an in-universe perspective) the greatest thing any of those younger Bat, Super, Flashfam members can do is inherit a title to be rather insulting. Like their own identities aren't worth preserving or making into the same type of legends.

[Stanlos]

I like old-school, emotionally healthy Bruce, who imagined he would retire some day. But today's Bruce is more likely to either die in the cowl or be forced into retirement by injury. But I'm not a legacy fan. Batman is a person, not a title. The others don't achieve legend status by taking on Bruce's mantle, but by making their own just as great. It's just that happens in a future we will never reach, because of how comics work.

I find the idea that (from an in-universe perspective) the greatest thing any of those younger Bat, Super, Flashfam members can do is inherit a title to be rather insulting. Like their own identities aren't worth preserving or making into the same type of legends.

That really depends on execution, doesn't it? Wally West is a great example of that form of legacy done well. CATWOMAN is another example--her assuming the moniker and theme of the Cat was inspired by Batman. I don't think it insulting that Helena, Cassie, Luke, Dick, or any of the others would feel to honour Bruce by taking up the mantle and the fight. Connor Hawke was also a great example of that done well as is Kyle Rayner. Oddly Roy Harper was a great instance of individual evolution who was regressed to be a different color Arrow for some reason.

[Tzigone]

That really depends on execution, doesn't it? Wally West is a great example of that form of legacy done well. CATWOMAN is another example--her assuming the moniker and theme of the Cat was inspired by Batman.

I very much dislike that version of Catwoman's origin. It took her from someone who did something independently to someone who copied another. It made Bruce important in her formation in that regard and her not-existent for his. Very much prefer the original. She's a supporting character, of course - or started that way. But this made a huge, important part of her life not entirely/originally hers, but motivated by him. Without her reciprocally shaping him. The degree of unequalness between two in a relationship (and I ship them, at least in premise) when he had that degree of major influence in shaping her life and she didn't in his...not for me.

And Barry is my Flash. I also dislike rewriting their history to make Barry something Wally he never was (a father figure) in the original stories and trashing his parents.

Luke, Dick, or any of the others would feel to honour Bruce by taking up the mantle and the fight.

They can honor him by carrying on the lessons he taught them (well, I don't know Luke much) without sacrificing their own identities - deeming their own selves less important than the Batman legacy. Especially important for Dick for whom forging his own self, separate from Batman, was an important event.

[Tsukiakari1203]

I very much dislike that version of Catwoman's origin. It took her from someone who did something independently to someone who copied another. It made Bruce important in her formation in that regard and her not-existent for his. Very much prefer the original. She's a supporting character, of course - or started that way. But this made a huge, important part of her life not entirely/originally hers, but motivated by him. Without her reciprocally shaping him. The degree of unequalness between two in a relationship (and I ship them, at least in premise) when he had that degree of major influence in shaping her life and she didn't in his...not for me.

Selina deserves a better organ than being inspired by bruce

[Stanlos]

Selina deserves a better organ than being inspired by bruce

Isn't that telling the one where she had skills and was already doing her catburglar and street avenger thing and merely took inspiration from the Bat-signal in the sky one evening?

[Stanlos]

So Bruce can die but nobody should ever take up the mantle of the Bat thereafter? Even with all the in-universe discussion of Bruce's own intentions?

[Tzigone]

So Bruce can die but nobody should ever take up the mantle of the Bat thereafter?

That's exactly my opinion. They make their own names - just like he did. The world will always need heroes. But there is no need for those heroes to be called "Batman."

[Blue22]

Yeah. I'd have to agree with that. I'd rather the Batman identity die with Bruce, whenever that happens. There are a grand total of three times where I was okay with someone else taking up the cowl:

- Dick, because his run was really good and we all knew it was gonna be temporary.
- Terry. Mostly because of nostalgia for the cartoon, but also because the Beyond suit is fucking awesome!
- Damian in DCeased. This is the only time I was sold on Damian as Batman. Because it's an AU and because it's not the 666 version, which I'm not particularly fond of.

I'd rather all the Robins go on to become their own things, without being held down by the massive weight that comes with being Batman. It's not the kind of life Bruce should want for any of his sons. And it's a road he should discourage them from going down, given how much he had to sacrifice to be Batman. But if I had to pick one of the four to take Bruce's place....I'd probably go with Tim. Put focus back on the intellectual/detective side of Batman. Delve deeper into the similarities between Tim's obsessive personality and Bruce's. Could be interesting.

[Godlike13]

Ya, I still don’t get that. A new Batman where they delve into his similarities with the old Batman. What’s the point then. Might as well just go the clone route then. I get on paper Tim might seem like a good fit, because he’s devolved into a mini Bruce (but not in the parody way like Damian), but that’s why he would probably be the least interesting.

[Stanlos]

That is interesting on the preference for the Batman ID to die. Now what about the business view from the standpoint of copyright?

[Pohzee]

That is interesting on the preference for the Batman ID to die. Now what about the business view from the standpoint of copyright?

DC is never gonna have Bruce stop being Batman, so that's not an issue.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Yeah. I'd have to agree with that. I'd rather the Batman identity die with Bruce, whenever that happens. There are a grand total of three times where I was okay with someone else taking up the cowl:

- Dick, because his run was really good and we all knew it was gonna be temporary.
- Terry. Mostly because of nostalgia for the cartoon, but also because the Beyond suit is fucking awesome!
- Damian in DCeased. This is the only time I was sold on Damian as Batman. Because it's an AU and because it's not the 666 version, which I'm not particularly fond of.

I'd rather all the Robins go on to become their own things, without being held down by the massive weight that comes with being Batman. It's not the kind of life Bruce should want for any of his sons. And it's a road he should discourage them from going down, given how much he had to sacrifice to be Batman. But if I had to pick one of the four to take Bruce's place....I'd probably go with Tim. Put focus back on the intellectual/detective side of Batman. Delve deeper into the similarities between Tim's obsessive personality and Bruce's. Could be interesting.

I want Cass to be Batman. I think no Robin should become Batman and I think that Batwoman should go to a Kane (preferably Betty)

[PCN24454]

I don't think Bruce always being Batman is super essential to the series. I'd be completely comfortable if he retired.