Controversial Batfam ideas

[SiegePerilous02]

True, but for some reason people love Dick anyway..

If we were to say Dick doesn't have one, we would logically have to say Bruce doesn't either.

[Bat-Meal]

I'm really completely unsure what Kate does that's unique but she has made a big impact and has a great design so I can't say she doesn't deserve to stick around. Major points for not just deferring to Batman, but I roll my eyes when she pretends the Bat isn't Bruce's symbol and that she has as much stake to it. Alright, Kate. You're totally not a spinoff of his IP.

Gets to have a cousin-rivalry situation going on with him: which is a different relationship to that of the others who are his children/students, friends, or parent (in Alfred's case). She doesn't absolutely have to be a part of the Batfamily though IMO, just like Spider-Man and Spider-Woman are not really connected. I'd be quite happy to have her in a good team book somewhere without any of the other Batfamily members around, but that's just me.

[Godlike13]

If they want to create a spin off or even brand a character thats fine, depending on the character, but I think its dumb when they slap the Bat symbol on any character and then try to pretend its theirs. Im more then find with spinoffs, but the Bat symbol is what it is at this point.

[The tall man]

Gets to have a cousin-rivalry situation going on with him: which is a different relationship to that of the others who are his children/students, friends, or parent (in Alfred's case). She doesn't absolutely have to be a part of the Batfamily though IMO, just like Spider-Man and Spider-Woman are not really connected. I'd be quite happy to have her in a good team book somewhere without any of the other Batfamily members around, but that's just me.

Is it really a rivalry though, Kate just doesn't appear to be on Batman's level at all and in any capacity. So when Director Bones ordered her to capture Batman I knew that Bruce was gonna be jobbing hard. I have no issue with anyone becoming a crimefighter/vigilante in Gotham, Batman cannot prevent that and he would be hypocritical to try (unless they crossed a line like murder). However he should absolutely have a say in who puts a bat symbol on their chest. That is his symbol and unique to him alone, if someone else wants to wear it then seek his permission/consent/approval. If they don't want to do that then they should adopt their own unique identity. And please don't say he didn't trademark the bat symbol, he created it it is his.

Also there should be no other Batman after Bruce. Batman was born with Bruce and he should die with him. Batman should just be a thing that existed for a time (Bruce's lifetime) then is gone. Set a fail safe to destroy the Batcave and be done with it. When Bruce finally dies let him be content that he made a difference and earned his eternal rest.

And finally I hope Tynion and all future Batman writers ignore King's run and his upcoming BatCat maxi series, so fed up with Selina. And give Bruce back his money, why the hell does lucius Fox get to have it.

[AmiMizuno]

I mean Dc will never let their relationship be Normal because Batman can't be happy. I think one of the things Bruce and Selina can have their slight differences but we really should be certain things to rest

[Gaius]

I mean Dc will never let their relationship be Normal because Batman can't be happy. I think one of the things Bruce and Selina can have their slight differences but we really should be certain things to rest

Don't know if this goes here but I can't really say even in the versions of Bruce where he isn't a joyless tool, that he and Selina would ever really work together long-term. Most of their relationship seems more based around infatuation/temptation, at least as far as I read it.

[AmiMizuno]

And sadly because of that, it spreads to the other family members. Jason can't date Artemis. Dick can date neither Babs nor Kori. They have to follow his lead

[SiegePerilous02]

Don't know if this goes here but I can't really say even in the versions of Bruce where he isn't a joyless tool, that he and Selina would ever really work together long-term. Most of their relationship seems more based around infatuation/temptation, at least as far as I read it.

It seemed to work out on Earth-2, at least for most of Helena's childhood. And Nolan Bruce ended up with Selina in a cinematic way that was as clean cut of a happy ending either of them would get.

I'd say it's mostly difficult to see with the modern comic versions because the crank up the dysfunction and angst

[Gaius]

It seemed to work out on Earth-2, at least for most of Helena's childhood. And Nolan Bruce ended up with Selina in a cinematic way that was as clean cut of a happy ending either of them would get.

I'd say it's mostly difficult to see with the modern comic versions because the crank up the dysfunction and angst

You're right it's certainty worked for some versions. Might be just be my own view of the two, though this applies to Bruce/Talia also. Though in that case I don't really see Bruce overlooking her complicity with Ra's.

[Bat-Meal]

Is it really a rivalry though, Kate just doesn't appear to be on Batman's level at all and in any capacity.

They don't have to be equally skilled at everything to be rivals, especially since they aren't going around literally fighting each other, most of the time. It's really not that hard to believe that a slightly younger family member would copy something, and insist on their independence at the same time. It's also not that hard to believe that the older one wouldn't necessarily do anything about it. Whether she's part of the Batfamily or not, she's still Bruce's family. Besides, she has his approval, their early meetings when she started out has been shown multiple time: 52, first solo, and in Tynion's Tec run. If anything, the thing he's didn't approve of was the wig.

And if you want to go into the end of the Gotham Knights run, he told her to take a break and then had a family meeting: where they ultimately decided they couldn't take the symbol from her. Add to that, the whole reason for the debate became partially invalidated by the end of the same arc - since Basil was revealed to be alive, left a note for Cass, and then left the city with Dr Oktober.

As for the Bat-symbol, the real reason behind it is the same reason you get so many male and female versions of a branded character: because companies can either sit on the rights to make sure to no other company uses it (for example Wonderman), or they can make use of it at the same time as ensuring another company doesn't use it.

[Restingvoice]

Jesus, ITT Damian white knighting.

Steph was probably my favorite Batgirl but arguably works best as Spoiler and unsanctioned by Batman.

Azrael needs to be completely divorced from the family as well.

Duke needs to find his niche and fast, but for some reason I've yet to give up on him.

Bluebird sucks. Get rid of her.

I prefer David as Batwing because he was just more interesting, but Luke has done enough that I'm open to keeping him.

Dick, Tim, Babs (Oracle), Cass and Jason all work.

I'm really completely unsure what Kate does that's unique but she has made a big impact and has a great design so I can't say she doesn't deserve to stick around. Major points for not just deferring to Batman, but I roll my eyes when she pretends the Bat isn't Bruce's symbol and that she has as much stake to it. Alright, Kate. You're totally not a spinoff of his IP.

Damian sucks and needs to replace Jason as the disobedient Robin who died. He's awful.

Bluebird's already retired and Harper isn't even anywhere unless Tynion's writing it. How much more getting rid of her you can get?

Also, I don't know how it is white knighting when those are legit reasons to explain Damian's behavior... and Damian already died. I thought we all agree that dead heroes don't do anything anymore except making people wait when he's coming back and creating replacements that ended up not getting used or having to find their own niche.

There's almost impossible for Dick to be completely free from Batman. His relationship with Batman is maybe his longest and strongest suit. DC will use it as much as they can.

I like Winnick's Lost Days too, except that You-Know-What
scene. Like it more than All-Caste plot. About redemption, does he really need it? I mean, he maims criminals only (and indeed occasionally Tim), for me he's fine as antihero (I never see him as villain).

By the way, where's Azrael right now? I feel like haven't see him for anlong time.

Justice League Odyssey

And?

Damian was a hero before he became Robin.
Being Robin isn't functioning it's a bird name, a symbol and a costume.

Well... technically he was not because he was only in it for himself and his family, so he's more like Talia at that point, but he can be a hero without the name

You mean an annoying and unlikable cuss? I mean, not the antithesis I'd like to see, but sure it is an antithesis.

True, but for some reason people love Dick anyway.


Yeah, I'm just going to have to disagree with all that.

I take it the annoying part still override the character concept?

Wonder why? The Hookless Robin. It's a wonder he's survived longer than most DC characters.

Charming, funny, likable, sexy, good leader, good relation with everyone
Sometimes you don't even need a hook and just be a character people enjoy reading

Oh and... I'm not getting involved with the OP question because y'all who know me long enough know I'm for keeping everyone. Heck, I even want to bring back those who are forgottens like Onyx, Misfit, the whole batch of We Are Robins, Gotham Academy kids, Michael Lane Azrael, the whole Batman Inc, Calvin Rose, Kitrina Falcone, and so on.

[Aahz]

They don't have to be equally skilled at everything to be rivals, especially since they aren't going around literally fighting each other, most of the time.

I find it still very strange that they treated her as Bruce equal in rebirth, since she is one of the newest characters and everybody (except Damian and the characters created post Flashpoint) is doing the hero thing longer then her.


If had to (moderatly) reduce the size of the Batfamily I would probably stick with Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Barbara, Cass, Steph and Helena Bertinelli.
With Steph and Helena probably not really in the core Batfamily and more as frequent guest characters in the books of the other members.

When it comes to the newer characters I could see Clownkiller stay arround for a while, havn't read much with him but he seems more interesting then Duke, Luke and Harper.

[Light of Justice]

Controversial opinions? I'm glad Alfred's dead. He hasn't really added much to stories in a while, and I hated how he was written in most of them. It was cheesy.

Indeed controversial, but on CBR I don't think there's many people who cares about Alfred except as Batfam's caretaker. I myself don't hate him, but I dislike when they portray him as the most badass all-around guy.

Write that on Twitter or Tumblr however, you'll be eaten alive.

[Light of Justice]

I miss Dami's friendships with Maps, Nell, Colin, Carrie, Kathy, Suren, Maya, and Jon

With Nell and Kathy it's not considered friendship yet. Aqualad almost always forgotten, by he also kinda get along with Damian on Percy's TT.

[Light of Justice]

Is it really a rivalry though, Kate just doesn't appear to be on Batman's level at all and in any capacity. So when Director Bones ordered her to capture Batman I knew that Bruce was gonna be jobbing hard. I have no issue with anyone becoming a crimefighter/vigilante in Gotham, Batman cannot prevent that and he would be hypocritical to try (unless they crossed a line like murder). However he should absolutely have a say in who puts a bat symbol on their chest. That is his symbol and unique to him alone, if someone else wants to wear it then seek his permission/consent/approval. If they don't want to do that then they should adopt their own unique identity. And please don't say he didn't trademark the bat symbol, he created it it is his.

Also there should be no other Batman after Bruce. Batman was born with Bruce and he should die with him. Batman should just be a thing that existed for a time (Bruce's lifetime) then is gone. Set a fail safe to destroy the Batcave and be done with it. When Bruce finally dies let him be content that he made a difference and earned his eternal rest.

And finally I hope Tynion and all future Batman writers ignore King's run and his upcoming BatCat maxi series, so fed up with Selina. And give Bruce back his money, why the hell does lucius Fox get to have it.

So you disapprove Batman Beyond?

he should absolutely have a say in who puts a bat symbol on their chest.

completely agree with this.