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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I guess I don´t see why estating that you want a place to live in peace and be a member of the UN equals to being a supremacist and I hardly see it when it´s a persecuted people who decide to do it for valid reasons.
    Building a safe haven for mutants: good.
    Considering a “race” is above over “races”: bad.
    The mutants are quite able to do both and they do it.

    How long will the persecution thing be an excuse for every shady action the mutants will undertake…
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Hard to think of a reason to justify that. What was Beast thinking?
    He figured their plant technology would
    A) oppen the door for a new kind of sentinels
    B) make Krakoa's drugs less attractive (as this nation could also develop some effective medicine)

    Beast acted like USA when some latin america nation becomes socialist or communist: mess them up in case they might turn into a threat.
    When the writer said X-Force would be like Krakoa CIA, he was not joking.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Building a safe haven for mutants: good.
    Considering a “race” is above over “races”: bad.
    The mutants are quite able to do both and they do it.
    So they are like other countries, communities and families in which there are people who make good and bad choices, are arrogant or humble or just neutral.

    How long will the persecution thing be an excuse for every shady action the mutants will undertake…
    When you paint an entire community the same way totally ignoring the reason and context around that community facts will keep getting in your way, they are not excuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel inquisitor
    They don't have to be passive, but the answer isn't genocide or conquering the world.

    Common mutants are at risk of being harmed by mutant supremacists, as well. Apocalypse who deal is letting or making vulnerable mutants perish - due to his Dawriwnist beliefs.

    Krako isn't doing anything helping wth that, instead it's rewarding them with political power.
    Krakoa is not trying to conquer the world, having a place in the goverment economy is not conquering the world neither are they trying to kill off humanity.

    They are giving them a chance with the idea of punishing them when they get out of line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steell Inquisitor
    Genosha was more multicultural and progressive than Krakoa is in many areas, but it should be pointed out magneto wasn't elected to lead that country, he blackmailed the United Nations into putting him in charge and had to enforce brutal strategies to keep the various mutant factions in line, so much so when he lost his powers during "Powerless" these factions were trying to kill him in revenge.
    No he wasn´t that´s why I found that ironic and Genosha didn´t get there on it´s own, they used to be a country that used mutants as slaves to run their economy they tried to change but that caused a civil war so the main leaders of different factions were willing to work with Magneto despite his actions with the hope of getting their country out of constant war. I agree the credit should not be to Magneto but he was a factor. Both Magneto and Polaris were also part of the country´s civil war the enemies Magneto was worried with were the previous regime made up of people who were in charge of making slaves of mutants.

    It's more like Attilan than Wakanda, Wakanda has more mechanisms in place to replace its leaders.
    they are both monarchies Attilan also has a goverment body just like Wakanda
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 10-02-2020 at 06:45 AM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  4. #79
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Building a safe haven for mutants: good.
    Considering a “race” is above over “races”: bad.
    The mutants are quite able to do both and they do it.

    How long will the persecution thing be an excuse for every shady action the mutants will undertake…
    Yes God will Damn them all to fiery syphilitic Hell for, after Years of getting stomped on by giant Robots, disenfranchised by their governments, poisoned by an Inhuman cloud, the mutants will DARE have some confidence and swag and pride in their race.
    Yall sound just like the "folks" that freaked out about Beyonce's "Black Panther" Super Bowl performance, and Formation video
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #80
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    I don't know who this would apply to, whether it is Moira, Xavier, or Krakoa as a concept, but the Xavier we thought we knew was all about coexistence. Moira said she had to radicalize him, to do what? She believes coexistence will not work. She believes isolation will not work. She probably believes moving off planet will not work. So what will work? Domination. They are not going to be hiding on Krakoa for the rest of their lives. They tried that. It can be argued that it is about survival or fear, but it could be argued that is actually the motivation behind supremacist thoughts in the first place. So Moira may or may not be a supremacist. Xavier may or may not. But Krakoa, based on the story behind it and what Hickman has laid out as the end goal, well it's existence seems to be about supremacy.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    I don't know who this would apply to, whether it is Moira, Xavier, or Krakoa as a concept, but the Xavier we thought we knew was all about coexistence. Moira said she had to radicalize him, to do what? She believes coexistence will not work. She believes isolation will not work. She probably believes moving off planet will not work. So what will work? Domination. They are not going to be hiding on Krakoa for the rest of their lives. They tried that. It can be argued that it is about survival or fear, but it could be argued that is actually the motivation behind supremacist thoughts in the first place. So Moira may or may not be a supremacist. Xavier may or may not. But Krakoa, based on the story behind it and what Hickman has laid out as the end goal, well it's existence seems to be about supremacy.
    Krakoa is about building community with all it´s lights and shadows that involves. I don´t agree Krakoa´s has left out coexistence per se after all they are still trying to build bridges across nations instead of just inside one country.

    I agree Hickman has left some narrative clues about not everything being ok with Krakoa from Moira´s notes to Xavier´s change in pov to the ressurections process etc but this doesn´t mean the idea of the coutuntry itself and of mutants getting together to build something else is evil itself. I think so far Hickman is telling a balanced narrative.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 10-02-2020 at 06:53 AM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Krakoa is about building community with all it´s lights and shadows that involves.
    Yes, but I am not talking about Krakoa as the palatable concept the general populace is being shown, but the long term purpose of it that as readers we can interpret from the many lives of Moira.

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Point out the person arguing that all of Krakoa is supremacist. I have already specified that I’m talking about the leadership.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    Yes, but I am not talking about Krakoa as the palatable concept the general populace is being shown, but the long term purpose of it that as readers we can interpret from the many lives of Moira.
    Yes I agree Moira could kind of end being the villain after is all told but so far we have not seen exactly what she wants to do with Krakoa, we know she sees the phalanx as their main enemies but she herself has admited Xavier and Magneto don´t remember everything she told them. So who knows what her plans are beyond Krakoa.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    I never get an answer. Why when a human slaughters mutants is "Not all humans" but when a mutant makes a disgusted comment towards humans then all mutants are dangerous supremacists.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    I never get an answer. Why when a human slaughters mutants is "Not all humans" but when a mutant makes a disgusted comment towards humans then all mutants are dangerous supremacists.
    Who are you directing that too, might help get an answer. I don't see anyone saying all mutants are supremacists just because Magneto is.

  12. #87
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    Who are you directing that too, might help get an answer. I don't see anyone saying all mutants are supremacists just because Magneto is.
    First post
    Quote Originally Posted by Agatha's Ghost View Post
    Everyone on Krakoa is a mutant supremacist.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    First post
    Did you ask that person? They have not even replied to this thread so what answer do you expect. Also, they never said their reasoning was because of what you said. You could be right, but I get the feeling it was a bit tongue in cheek.

    Letting Exodus indoctrinate the children of Krakoa might be something they would want to cut down on if they don't agree with his position though.

  14. #89
    X-Men fan since '92 Odd Rödney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    At some point in time during their lives I would say the following people were all mutant supremacist.

    Apocalypse
    Magneto
    Fabian Cortez
    Exodus
    Mr Sinister
    All members of the mutant liberation front
    Cyclops
    Most members of the Hellfire Club
    Charles Xavier

    Now that I’m thinking about it you can add Wolverine to the list as well. When he was Weapon Omega in AoA.
    Wolverine12 is right, these are the best examples of the more extreme mutant views that might qualify as supremacist. The idea that "all of the mutants on Krakoa are mutant supremacist" is a little off I think, especially considering the bigotry mutants have had to deal with. Every other time they've experimented with their own society it has been met with hatred. It makes sense that they're sick of the hate & fear, that this time they aren't taking any chances.
    Last edited by Odd Rödney; 02-18-2021 at 03:20 PM.
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  15. #90

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    I don't think you all have the wherewithal to discuss this topic. I mean, Hitler just wanted to fix Germany's economy and protect his people too.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

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