Why did Professor X and Magneto wait until now to form Krakoa?

[Hcmarvel]

I think one of the retcons that Hickman made that is hardest for me to fully grasp is that Prof. X has had Krakoa in mind from the get-go. What, are we meant to think, he was waiting for? And did he know what was going to happen throughout all of the stories? Did he know Jean would be Phoenix? Did he know about Wanda? Genosha? How complicit was he in everything that has happened throughout continuity. How much of Moira's 4th life (the one that refers to the Phoenix Five as the Lost Decade) did Xavier get access to?

What did he think of the Utopia era? Was that not basically his vision? Why did he reject Magneto when he came to Utopia? What exactly triggered the decision, post Rosenberg's X-Men, to enact the Krakoa plan? I think the Moira retcon works, you have to make some things work to have it totally track but I think you can do it. The idea that Xavier knew what was going to happen to mutant kind but still allowed it all to happen is harder to make fit.

For that matter why did Magneto attack Cape Canaveral in X-Men #1? We know in HoxPox Moira's diaries mention "losing" Magneto and this seems to refer to X-Men Vol. 2 1-3. But did they not "lose" Magneto before that? In the Silver Age? Is that why Moira tried to warp Magneto's mind when she aged him up from a baby? What exactly was the deal that Professor X, Moira, and Magneto make in HoxPox entail?

[Drexelhand]

I think one of the retcons that Hickman made that is hardest for me to fully grasp is that Prof. X has had Krakoa in mind from the get-go. What, are we meant to think, he was waiting for? And did he know what was going to happen throughout all of the stories? Did he know Jean would be Phoenix? Did he know about Wanda? Genosha? How complicit was he in everything that has happened throughout continuity.

I'll try my best to answer these, but I think the idea is that Xavier has always had a general idea of how things would play out, but that's it - he's never known anything specific. It's like looking at a blurry picture where you can tell what happens but can't make out any faces. But this isn't a new idea introduced by Moira, when Cable was first introduced, he and Professor X didn't like each other and avoided each other for a long time, acting like they didn't know each other. It was later revealed that Cable met him shortly after meeting Moira and imparted future knowledge on him as well as having helped build some of his security. So Professor X has always known in general what was coming. All the Moira retcon has added is that Cable's meeting just provided redundancy and that he's had a vague picture ten years earlier than originally.

What did he think of the Utopia era? Was that not basically his vision? Why did he reject Magneto when he came to Utopia? What exactly triggered the decision, post Rosenberg's X-Men, to enact the Krakoa plan? I think the Moira retcon works, you have to make some things work to have it totally track but I think you can do it. The idea that Xavier knew what was going to happen to mutant kind but still allowed it all to happen is harder to make fit.

The thing about Utopia is that they were hostile with the world in a very passive aggressive way because they had to be to survive. Krakoa has thousands of mutants, Utopia had less than two hundred and faced countless invasions: Necrosha, Vampires, Sentinels, Avengers. It also forced the issue of child soldiers. There were a lot of issues with Utopia, but it was closer to Magneto's vision than it was to Charles Xavier's vision in that it used the former out of the hope that once survival was ensured, they could move to the latter.

For that matter why did Magneto attack Cape Canaveral in X-Men #1? We know in HoxPox Moira's diaries mention "losing" Magneto and this seems to refer to X-Men Vol. 2 1-3. But did they not "lose" Magneto before that? In the Silver Age? Is that why Moira tried to warp Magneto's mind when she aged him up from a baby? What exactly was the deal that Professor X, Moira, and Magneto make in HoxPox entail?

Xavier and Moira only gave Magneto a vision of what he went through in Moira's past lives around X-Men 150 (either a bit before or after, both work) when he accidentally strikes Kitty Pryde and breaks down remembering his own family. This in turn gives more context to the slow turn he has to the good side over the next 150~ issues as well as why Magneto turns on them both in X-Men Vol 2. 1-3.

[Lucyinthesky]

Moira and Xavier made the deal the deal with Magneto post silver age after he grew up from being a baby and his mind was not so damaged by his powers that was where he became headmaster of the school. They parted ways during X-men #1-3 Vol.1 and seem to only get together again post Age of X-man.

Xavier and Moira have been getting ready for a while for Krakoa but Moira admits she had to convince Xavier along the way because he wanted first to know for sure the School would not work, in theory that was why Moira expend so much time alone on her island and why they were so interested in getting contact with Krakoa. Moira´s diary explains most of the process she developed to get Krakoa´s ready.

Moira having mutant powers is still a retcon of course, so not everything alings perfectly but for the most part it´s logic that a project like Krakoa took a lot of time and effort to get ready and that was why it took a long time to develop it. There´s also the fact that Moira knows the events but they don´t happen the same way from one life to another.

[Hcmarvel]

RIGHT! Octopus-heim means its around X-Men 150! That's so clear but I completely missed it. Thanks!

[Will Evans]

I thought it was they finally had 5 mutants who’s powers combined can be used with Xavier’s cerebro storage to resurrect everyone.



The hard thing for me, is that even after Moira’s warnings, he read the minds of Rachel, Cable and Bishop too.

[Lucyinthesky]

RIGHT! Octopus-heim means its around X-Men 150! That's so clear but I completely missed it. Thanks!

Welcome

[Omega Alpha]

All the pieces and players had to be in place, and for most of history, they were not- Xavier and Magneto were at odds, and both of them with Moira, the 5 didn't had their powers, neither did Doug, Apocalypse needed some time in the modern world, and a few good defeats, before he was ready for something different, and mutantkind had to be tired of trying to work with humans and only get slaughtered and betrayed.

Looking back, it also makes some of the moves by Xavier and Magneto make more sense:

a) Why didn't Xavier just called the Avengers or the F4 to help him after the X-men were captured by Krakoa, rather than put on a team of rookies barely trained, and them another team of X-men, more experienced but that had never worked together? Answer is because he knew Krakoa's potential and couldn't risk other superheroes knowing too, but he went there when it was too soon and Krakoa wasn't ready for them (and without Doug, he had no means to actually communicate in any deeper form).

b) Why did Xavier trusted Magneto of all people with the school when he went to live with the Shi'ar, rather than picking someone like Cyclops or Beast? Because he needed someone that knew what he did and what was the end goal was.

c) Why did Magneto was so excited about Utopia, even bowing down to Cyclops? Because he was the potential to build something like Krakoa, but without any interference from Moira.

[jwatson]

I think one of the retcons that Hickman made that is hardest for me to fully grasp is that Prof. X has had Krakoa in mind from the get-go. What, are we meant to think, he was waiting for? And did he know what was going to happen throughout all of the stories? Did he know Jean would be Phoenix? Did he know about Wanda? Genosha? How complicit was he in everything that has happened throughout continuity. How much of Moira's 4th life (the one that refers to the Phoenix Five as the Lost Decade) did Xavier get access to?

What did he think of the Utopia era? Was that not basically his vision? Why did he reject Magneto when he came to Utopia? What exactly triggered the decision, post Rosenberg's X-Men, to enact the Krakoa plan? I think the Moira retcon works, you have to make some things work to have it totally track but I think you can do it. The idea that Xavier knew what was going to happen to mutant kind but still allowed it all to happen is harder to make fit.

For that matter why did Magneto attack Cape Canaveral in X-Men #1? We know in HoxPox Moira's diaries mention "losing" Magneto and this seems to refer to X-Men Vol. 2 1-3. But did they not "lose" Magneto before that? In the Silver Age? Is that why Moira tried to warp Magneto's mind when she aged him up from a baby? What exactly was the deal that Professor X, Moira, and Magneto make in HoxPox entail?

They also gave Xavier a pretty decent out. In one of his rebirths he apparently came back with memories missing on purpose so for all we know this current Xavier may not have ALL the memories of Xavier.

[Grunty]

Maybe because a Dominion warped their memories into this state and inserted Moira X as (unknowning) agent to make them believe what they are doing is their own plan, rather than being the marionettes of a mega conscious pulling their strings from a time and space bypassing black hole, all to push mutants to develop into "post humans" before the normal humans can, via rapidly improving bio-technology and chimera projects, which once they got absorbed by a Phallanx will grant said Dominion access to the X-gene, allowing them to controll the Phoenix Force and have it destroy Gallactus, ensuring the destruction of the two things that can destroy them?

Just trying to cover all bases, considering all these informations of Phallanx, Titans and Dominions must have been in HOX/POX for a reason.

[Omega Alpha]

Maybe because a Dominion warped their memories into this state and inserted Moira X as (unknowning) agent to make them believe what they are doing is their own plan, rather than being the marionettes of a mega conscious pulling their strings from a time and space bypassing black hole, all to push mutants to develop into "post humans" before the normal humans can, via rapidly improving bio-technology and chimera projects, which once they got absorbed by a Phallanx will grant said Dominion access to the X-gene, allowing them to controll the Phoenix Force and have it destroy Gallactus, ensuring the destruction of the two things that can destroy them?

Just trying to cover all bases, considering all these informations of Phallanx, Titans and Dominions must have been in HOX/POX for a reason.

Yeah...no. If Moira was an agent of the Dominions, then it would all end in her 6th life; they are what she's trying to avoid.

[Glio]

In the Moria diaries I think they make it quite clear.

Xavier for a long time tried to maintain his original dream of coexistence, resisting Moira's arguments. He made plans, but many of them required specific elements and circumstances.

He needed Cerebro's technology to reach certain levels, to have access to Shi'ar technology, for Goldballs, Tempus, and Hope to develop their powers, and for Magneto to be in league with him.

Tempus and Goldballs only developed their powers once Xavier was dead, so Magneto had to wait for Xavier to resurrect. And once Xavier was resurrected, he and Magneto were moving pieces in the shadows to prepare Krakoa.

[Grunty]

Yeah...no. If Moira was an agent of the Dominions, then it would all end in her 6th life; they are what she's trying to avoid.

That would require her memories to be real and her powers to work as she thinks they do. Which we can't be sure of to be the case, because what she claims and thinks about herself, means that there can never be any proof of it being real besides her personal memories.

The moment proof appears of them in the present day is also the moment her claims need to be doubted.

And the interesting thing about Life 6 is that elements of Life 9 appear in it, which can only exist as the result of Moira's experience in Life 6.
Essentialy the two futures we saw from the perspectives of characters that aren't Moira (the Chimeras, Cylobel, the Sentinels, Wolverine and the Librarian) and therefor narratively reinforced to be true, which were also labeled x2 and x3 seperated from the "Lifes" label, are contradicting the strict chain of lifes Moira believes to have gone through.

Just add the bit Franklin Richard told Captain America in Hickman's Avengers run about time not being a strict line and we have plenty of room to consider the Dominion to exist allready and manipulating the events of the 616 universe in the present day timeline to suit their needs a thousand years in the future.

Also Moira trying to avoid the Dominion does not make it impossible that she is unknowningly doing their work. Like a twilight zone twist where someone trying to avoid a future is actively causing it to happen.

Like i said just covering some bases because the Dominion thing seems to have been introduced for a reason by the writer and not just a boogeyman.

[Hizashi]

I wonder how much foreknowledge they had and why they didn't choose to alter events depending on that.

Also, do we know how much continuity is intact?

[shooshoomanjoe]

Past writers didn't think about it.

[Kisinith]

Realistically, They would have almost no actual usable foreknowledge. If you look at what information was given by Moira on her previous lives they all differed wildly. She explained it in HoX #2 that her knowledge of the future changes it and she never relives her previous life.
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If you look into the many lives of Moira X there are many similarities but that grows out of the idea that the world changes but the people remain who they have always been. In Moira's 4th life, the only one remotely like the MU, She and Xavier remained romantically linked through the whole history of the X-Men, neither died until the very end. That fact alone drastically changes the story beats involved. For example the lost decade has the Phoenix 5 except consider how drastically different that everything that happened post AvX must be without Xavier dying in AvX. Thats is true for events going all they way back to the first meeting of Moira and Xavier in that life.

The idea behind the many lives of Moira X really are much more akin to elseworlds and what if's. The characters remain the same but the circumstances all around them are different and the more she interacts the greater the differences.

*Edited to correct the life