Last Remains

[Jman27]

I don't really care if Spidey is not involved. Venom can clearly stand on his own, and doesn't need Peter's help in his fights. Still, it's fun to see them interacting, and Peter being more friendly towards his old living costume. Yeah, I don't get why he still thinks that the symbiote is such an evil entity.

he pretty much wore the symbiote in the red goblin storyline plus he doesnt have an issue with the symbiote anymore and when they team up in absolute carnage it was beautiful they are like brothers now I want him to be very involved in the King in Black story

[WebSlingWonder]

I don't really care if Spidey is not involved. Venom can clearly stand on his own, and doesn't need Peter's help in his fights. Still, it's fun to see them interacting, and Peter being more friendly towards his old living costume. Yeah, I don't get why he still thinks that the symbiote is such an evil entity.

He doesn't think it's evil anymore; he made peace with it back in ASM #800!

[Dzika_Sowa]

he pretty much wore the symbiote in the red goblin storyline plus he doesnt have an issue with the symbiote anymore and when they team up in absolute carnage it was beautiful they are like brothers now I want him to be very involved in the King in Black story

He doesn't think it's evil anymore; he made peace with it back in ASM #800!

Really? Then I must be misremembering things. I know he wore the symbiote while fighting Red Goblin, but I could swore that he had some snarky comments towards it in Absolute Carnage

[Jman27]

Really? Then I must be misremembering things. I know he wore the symbiote while fighting Red Goblin, but I could swore that he had some snarky comments towards it in Absolute Carnage

the only snarky comments was that Eddie had a kid but throughout the whole event he was supporting Eddie throughout the whole thing. Eddie told him about his son and Peter was encouraging Eddie to open up and tell his son about him being his father. Plus Peter protected both Eddie and Normie from Carnage-Obsorn too he was great

[WebSlingWonder]

Really? Then I must be misremembering things. I know he wore the symbiote while fighting Red Goblin, but I could swore that he had some snarky comments towards it in Absolute Carnage

Snark is different from disdain, though.

[stillanerd]

Yeah, even though I was leaning towards the "Kindred is Gwen Stacy back from the dead" theory, this now definitely gives ammunition to the idea that Kindred is some portion of Peter's soul, whether it's pre-OMD, the memory fragment in Doc Ock's body, etc.

Or it also suggests that Harry is somehow Kindred...or that's who Norman Osborn believes him to be. Because Norman has called Harry "the boy" in past, I believe. Not to mention we've been reminded twice that Harry died in Spectacular Spider-Man #200 despite the fact we have still see him alive. Unless it gets revealed that the Harry we've seen since Brand New Day is a clone or something.

Even so, I'm thinking the theory that Kindred is really some aspect of Peter Parker just went up considerably. Unless it really is Harry...somehow.

EDIT: By the way, some circumstantial evidence that Kindred is actually a portion of Peter's soul that "died" while in Doc Ock's body as seen in ASM #700 and later Clone Conspiracy? Isn't it interesting how Kindred uses his giant centipedes the same way that Doc Ock uses his tentacles?

[Jman27]

Is the reason why people don't want it to be Harry is cause he hasn't done anything of note since his revival? Like his peak as a character was when he die as the green goblin?

[stillanerd]

Is the reason why people don't want it to be Harry is cause he hasn't done anything of note since his revival? Like his peak as a character was when he die as the green goblin?

I think it's because it seems like too obvious a reveal at this point. Plus we know that Harry is still alive despite these past few issues reminding us that he "died" during Spectacular Spider-Man #200. So if Kindred winds up being Harry somehow, then folks will instantly go, "We waited two years for that?!"

[Spidey_62]

For me I've never really liked having Harry back so I would be fine with another retcon saying part of him came back and part of him didn't.

[xpyred]

Are we positive that the Harry since OMD is the real Harry? Forget the idea of clones or genetic constructs. The whole point of the 90's Clone Saga was because Norman hated Peter over Harry's death. We also know that Mysterio was using theatrics to revive Maggia members and even went around posing at Silverman. Who is to say that the harry from BND wasn't just a plot to mess with Spider-Man? Honestly speaking, Mind on Fire wasn't that great as far as explaining the return of Harry. It completely craps on the 90's Clone Saga (not that anyone cares because everyone hated it anyhow) and just disregards The Osborn Journal. I would rather Kindred turn out to be Spectacular Spider-Man 200 Harry Osborn and they completely shut down the BND Harry with the quickness.

Edit: And as a fan who began reading Spider-Man with Spectacular Spider-Man 199 and 200, I would totally be happy with Kindred being Harry because it would erase BND's awfully lame explanation.

[stillanerd]

For me I've never really liked having Harry back so I would be fine with another retcon saying part of him came back and part of him didn't.

Well, if Kindred does turn out to be Harry, then the easiest explanation for how this is possible is that Harry really did die in Spectacular Spider-Man #200, and the Harry we've seen since Brand New Day is actually a clone with false memories that Osborn had the Jackal create.

[NC_Yankee]

I don't really care if Spidey is not involved. Venom can clearly stand on his own, and doesn't need Peter's help in his fights. Still, it's fun to see them interacting, and Peter being more friendly towards his old living costume. Yeah, I don't get why he still thinks that the symbiote is such an evil entity.

MJ hates that costume and that could be a reason why.

[Spidey_62]

Are we positive that the Harry since OMD is the real Harry? Forget the idea of clones or genetic constructs. The whole point of the 90's Clone Saga was because Norman hated Peter over Harry's death. We also know that Mysterio was using theatrics to revive Maggia members and even went around posing at Silverman. Who is to say that the harry from BND wasn't just a plot to mess with Spider-Man? Honestly speaking, Mind on Fire wasn't that great as far as explaining the return of Harry. It completely craps on the 90's Clone Saga (not that anyone cares because everyone hated it anyhow) and just disregards The Osborn Journal. I would rather Kindred turn out to be Spectacular Spider-Man 200 Harry Osborn and they completely shut down the BND Harry with the quickness.

Edit: And as a fan who began reading Spider-Man with Spectacular Spider-Man 199 and 200, I would totally be happy with Kindred being Harry because it would erase BND's awfully lame explanation.

The Dan Slott BND Mind on Fire story that revealed why exactly Harry didn't die was pretty well-disliked at the time it came out, I think Dan Slott himself has said before in recent years he wasn't proud of how that one turned out.

Here in Spencer's run we're acting like Harry did die, which he did in Spec #200, and given Spencer's knack for sticking to the history I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't a fan of Harry's resurrection. Maybe that's partially why Harry hasn't turned up physically yet in his run, too.

I'm still right there with ya on the pre-OMD Harry train for Kindred.

[Kingkalamari]

Is the reason why people don't want it to be Harry is cause he hasn't done anything of note since his revival? Like his peak as a character was when he die as the green goblin?

For me it's the opposite, he has done quite a bit since retconned back to life, "American Son" is one of my favorite BND-era stories and is a great cap on Harry-Norman's story with Harey standing up to his father and breaking free from the obligation of having to be his father's equal. Similarly his moments being a great dad in Absolute Carnage rescuing his son and facing off against his dad using Goblin tech is a great example of the Osborn lineage and genius being used for good to save a family instead of tear it apart. If this was just a clone, these stories would all be invalidated.

Additionally, Harry just wouldn't be the Kindred because what did he do to end up in Hell? He never killed anyone as the Green Goblin, he just harassed Parker. Like #850 and #30/#31 of this run, American Son, and #200 show, Peter and Harry are best friends who were able to overcome all circumstances that were thrown at them, even death itself. Kindred being Harry would invalidate that friendship, that even if he died in #200, at peace and forgiving Parker, he ended up in Hell out of... bad luck? And bad moral implications that forgiveness to yourself and those you've love that you've turned your back on can never be undone, even in the afterlife.

I think reading Spencer's comments about Harry dying is not so much a hint as much as its saying that Harry was a victim of Osborn, and for all accounts died, but eventually returned to life just as Osborn did with Goblin regen. OMD muddles everything but its moreso a footnote of Harry being a victim of GG more than anything.

[Jman27]

For me it's the opposite, he has done quite a bit since retconned back to life, "American Son" is one of my favorite BND-era stories and is a great cap on Harry-Norman's story with Harey standing up to his father and breaking free from the obligation of having to be his father's equal. Similarly his moments being a great dad in Absolute Carnage rescuing his son and facing off against his dad using Goblin tech is a great example of the Osborn lineage and genius being used for good to save a family instead of tear it apart. If this was just a clone, these stories would all be invalidated.

Additionally, Harry just wouldn't be the Kindred because what did he do to end up in Hell? He never killed anyone as the Green Goblin, he just harassed Parker. Like #850 and #30/#31 of this run, American Son, and #200 show, Peter and Harry are best friends who were able to overcome all circumstances that were thrown at them, even death itself. Kindred being Harry would invalidate that friendship, that even if he died in #200, at peace and forgiving Parker, he ended up in Hell out of... bad luck? And bad moral implications that forgiveness to yourself and those you've love that you've turned your back on can never be undone, even in the afterlife.

True I remember his role during Parker industry and during the red goblin arc and absoulte carnage like you said he has no reason to do bad