Rumbler's League 2014 - Fall: Discussion Thread

[Tami]

Would it be alright if I suggested some price changes to be added to the future reference page?

I've been looking through the list and have spotted some serious weirdness in the prices of some Fate/ items. Nothing as bad as when I noticed the Millennium Ring being a three-point item, but still.

Go ahead, might as well post it here.

[Siriel]

Alright:

Characters

Archer (Fate/Stay Night) 8

I certainly wouldn't put Archer on the same level as Barragan/Mordo/Grodd.

Dude has some super stats of unclear level (aside from "above bullet timing"), is immune to non-magical weapons and can replicate close-combat weapons. He's not /that/ good.
Hell, some of the other Fate/ people that cost less would beat him 100% of the time.

Assassin (Fate/stay night) 7

This...puzzles me. Depending on which Assassin we're talking about, he's either a casual bullet timer+ who is really good at swinging his completely non-magical sword, or someone with great stealth who throws daggers at bullet speed whose special move crushes your heart from a few meters away regardless of durability.

Neither of those are really what I would rank as 7-pointers. Four to six depending on which one it is.

Berserker (Fate/Stay Night) 7

To my knowledge the only one who's actually seen League play. I think everyone remembers from my old team that you can do some pretty gross thing with him; he's alright at seven based on the sheer exploitability of his powers.

But his presence at seven just makes Archer or Assassin being 7-8 even more baffling; Berserker canonically murdered Archer and Assassin can't even touch him.

Berserker (Fate/Zero) 8

Part of me winced a bit at Lancelot being priced higher than Herakles. He has fairly good stats and a sword that boosts his stats further by some unspecified amount, but that's about it. Even at his strongest, he's still physically weaker than F/SN Berserker.

I suppose one could make a case for his price being ramped up since he turns any conventional weapon or vehicle into a superior magical equivalent, but still; that's not worth eight points.

Drop to a five or six, I'd say.

Gilgamesh (Fate/Stay Night) 8
Gilgamesh (Fate/Extra CCC) 8

I consider those two to be fine at 8 if for no other reason than sheer mind-boggling versatility (also Ea). I just brought them up to note that Gilgamesh can canonically solo everyone not-Gilgamesh in this list put together so many of them being priced as high as he is is hilarious.

Lancer (Fate/Stay Night) 6

Why in the world is this guy ranked below Zero's Berserker? Lancer can't be hit by projectiles (literally - it can't happen), is so fast that people above bullet timers can't perceive his strikes, has a spear that inflicts wounds that need powerful magic to heal and his special technique is predetermined to kill you before he actually uses it which makes it impossible to block or dodge.

I think he's fine at 6 or 7 but again he just underlines how overpriced some of the other guys are.

Rider (Fate/Stay Night) 6

Same puzzlement as Lancer. Rider is pretty fast, has a magic-proof Pegasus that moves at mach-something speed, and if she removes her blindfold she petrifies anyone in her line of sight.

I'd bump her to a seven based on that last thing.

Saber (Fate/stay night) 8

If one goes by a fairly generous interpretation of her stats and magical resistance, I guess she's worth 7 or 8. Why you'd ever buy her over Gilgamesh I don't know.

Shirou Emiya (Fate/Stay Night) 4

Which version of Shirou should be specified. He could be anywhere from a one to a four/five pointer depending on the route. In doubt I would default with Unlimited Blade Works' version just because that's the one Nasu talks about the most.

Items

Avalon (Fate/stay night) 10

As I discussed at length before the forum wipe, a decent healing factor and the ability to make yourself invulnerable to attacks for a short time at the cost of not being able to interact with the outside is not really worth 10.

I have no idea how many points it should be worth.

Ea (Fate/stay night) 10

While I love Ea and its hilariously inconsistent animation, a big stick is not worth 10. Even more so when you consider that Gilgamesh has it and he's an 8 pointer.

Down it to 8-9 points, would be my opinion; it's a reality warping attack but the lack of variety, defense or stat boost makes it not worth a 10 point investment.

(I note that Gilgamesh is canonically the only person who can use Ea; I'm assuming that restriction is lifted here.)

Enkidu (Fate/stay night) 6

Assuming some generosity in what is meant by "divinity", this seems alright.

Gae Bolg (Fate/stay night) 6

Gae Bolg is just a spear that prevents healing and shoots hundreds of thorns when thrown; the instant-kill reversal of causality is a technique of Lancer's.

Depending on how powerful you want to argue the thorns are this may need repricing.

Rule Breaker (Fate/stay night) 6

Presuming some generosity in what is considered affectable by it, dropping it to 5 seems like an alright price. Even then it's kind of a gimmicky purchase.

[Estrecca]

Well, that was not quite as ridiculous as the league 3 finale, but it was draining.

[Dalak]

Well, that was not quite as ridiculous as the league 3 finale, but it was draining.

Agreed on the Draining, but that could just be the fever I woke up with and my banged up toe.

[Primetime Harder]

Hey all...sorry about my absence. Just, crazy stuff going on in my life. Girlfriend getting booted out of her apartment, having to scramble to figure out new arrangements, getting my house ready. Barely had time to think.

But that's pretty much all cleared up now. I'll have a strat for week 3. (And besides, Darth probably would have mopped the floor with me anyway.)

[Tami]

Hey all...sorry about my absence. Just, crazy stuff going on in my life. Girlfriend getting booted out of her apartment, having to scramble to figure out new arrangements, getting my house ready. Barely had time to think.

But that's pretty much all cleared up now. I'll have a strat for week 3. (And besides, Darth probably would have mopped the floor with me anyway.)

Glad to see your back.

[Primetime Harder]

Glad to see your back.

Oh, sorry, let me turn around so you can see my front.

*BA-DUM-TSSSH*

Seriously though, thank you. Good to be back. I've gotten cracking on that strat already.

[Estrecca]

For the record...

I can't believe I'm saying it given Estrecca's general team composition being "oh god" and "please not the face"

This made me laugh out loud (also, it made me grin in an evil manner).

[Dalak]

NSFW due to Language

[Estrecca]

For me, against me, through a coinflip if you feel that things are too close to call.

But it is better, as a matter of discipline, to vote in everything. Otherwise, it becomes tempting to stop voting in most matches and we end with things dying down as enthusiasm dries late in the season.

[Siriel]

I would have voted but I only started catching up with the league this morning, so I'm not familiar enough with the teams to judge the situation yet.

[Tami]

I would have voted but I only started catching up with the league this morning, so I'm not familiar enough with the teams to judge the situation yet.

Only in 2nd week, plenty of time to join the fun.

[Estrecca]

Cthulhu, it is your turn next week.

Any questions about my team you feel like asking?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Cthulhu, it is your turn next week.

Any questions about my team you feel like asking?

How do I beat you?

#yousaidanyquestions

[Dalak]

For me, against me, through a coinflip if you feel that things are too close to call.

But it is better, as a matter of discipline, to vote in everything. Otherwise, it becomes tempting to stop voting in most matches and we end with things dying down as enthusiasm dries late in the season.

This, all the way. I may roll dice as I'm a TRUE GAMER, but I totally agree.

I can't blame any who came too late to get a good handle on the situations as I always like to give a good long Pooh-style Think going on tough matches, but for any possible newcomers who read this you should make your opinions known and vote just like we who fight and bleed for the votes.

You might get disagreed with like in any debate, but as long as you have read the strats (and hopefully give the folks involved a chance to debate, but it's not absolutely necessary) and make a post giving a reason why you voted how you did then you & your vote will be welcomed by everyone here. That's even listed in the first post of every match.