Which original non-Trinity Golden Age JSAer has fared the best? The worst?

[daBronzeBomma]

Best: Jay Garrick. The original Flash has been fully embraced by the Flash franchise.

Worst: no idea, lots of contenders.

[Flash Gordon]

Liberty Belle has the potential to be a straight up ICON, so I'd go with her.

Rad aesthetic, weird origin, fun powers- along with just 2-fisted adventure glam. Great character all around

[sifighter]

Best: Either Jay Garrick or Dr. Fate, both have done well at maintaining a good place within the dc universe.

Worst: Black Canary (Dinah Drake), half the time we’re not even sure she exists or worse her history gets merged with her daughter. Does she even exist in current continuity? Last I saw her was Injustice year zero and before that Scooby Doo team up.

[Will Evans]

Best: Wildcat
Worst: Spectre. Just when you think DC will let Jim Corrigan go on to his eternal rest in heaven, DC continuity resets and makes him Spectre again. And since he has cosmic awareness, he most likely realizes this.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Liberty Belle has the potential to be a straight up ICON, so I'd go with her.

Rad aesthetic, weird origin, fun powers- along with just 2-fisted adventure glam. Great character all around

Golden Age Liberty Belle was never in the JSA, so she doesn't count.

Best: Jay Garrick, with Alan Scott running neck and neck (no pun intended, and DEFINITELY no pun intended where the Guggenheim run is concerned) but coming in second by *just* *this* *much*.

Worst: Poor Al Pratt. Being a tough and strong short guy just doesn't mean as much nowadays as it did back in the Golden Age. Plus, his wife died while he was trapped in Ragnarok, a teenager was introduced as the son he never knew he had (and did they ever meet?), his protege gave up his own more unique identity just to become an over-sized ersatz copy of him (and because James Robinson had a bug up his ass about Roy Thomas creating legacies of the JSA in the 80's), and how did he die? Skeleton-ized by a body-engulfing energy blast by Extant. More has been done creatively (and sometimes even posthumously) with the likes of Rex Tyler, Wesley Dodds, Teds Knight AND Grant, Johnny Thunder, or even Terry Sloane (to say nothing of the Spectre, the Hawks, and Jay and Alan). Al died and nobody has shown in any interest in him ever since. (Arguably the same can be said for Charles McNider, but at least he had a cooler concept and costume design, as well as a more respected legacy in Pieter Cross [up until the time they lost interest in Cross].)

[Vakanai]

Flash, Dr. Fate, and Spectre just for the sheer fact that they see somewhat regular use, both in story and outside media. As long as you get to play without too much change, you still matter.

Best: Wildcat
Worst: Spectre. Just when you think DC will let Jim Corrigan go on to his eternal rest in heaven, DC continuity resets and makes him Spectre again. And since he has cosmic awareness, he most likely realizes this.

I'd argue that's not right. Having him move on may be what the character would want, a happy ending, but for ongoing superhero stories where Superman and Batman will still be written a hundred years from now, letting Spectre end would be the worst thing for him.

[Will Evans]

Flash, Dr. Fate, and Spectre just for the sheer fact that they see somewhat regular use, both in story and outside media. As long as you get to play without too much change, you still matter.


I'd argue that's not right. Having him move on may be what the character would want, a happy ending, but for ongoing superhero stories where Superman and Batman will still be written a hundred years from now, letting Spectre end would be the worst thing for him.

As an undead cop, Jim was already on borrowed time anyway. His modern series earned him a rest with its narrative. Keep in mind, I’m talking about Jim himself, not the Spectre entity.

[Gaius]

Flash, Dr. Fate, and the Spectre.

Alan's alright though his more looser and distant connections to the Silver Age-onwards GLs keeps him below someone like Jay.

[DrNewGod]

First Thing: Great thread idea daBronzeBomma!

My patella reflex for best was The Flash; he was really elevated as An Elder Statesman by Waid, et al. However, when I think on who has held titles, and been a presence, I have to say Black Canary.

I know. Depending on the retcon or reboot, she's not the same Dinah Drake that kicked Johnny Thunder out of his own Flash Comics feature back in the waning days of The Golden Age. In fact, I don't think she's been a Drake in nearly 70 years. But the core of the character has remained. Everything about her is rooted in that original sexy @$$-kicker of.the old days.

Worst: Hawkman. Gang, I love him deeply, but he's a mess.

[Lightning Rider]

Worst: Black Canary (Dinah Drake), half the time we’re not even sure she exists or worse her history gets merged with her daughter. Does she even exist in current continuity? Last I saw her was Injustice year zero and before that Scooby Doo team up.

Damn, that's a good point.

[Vakanai]

As an undead cop, Jim was already on borrowed time anyway. His modern series earned him a rest with its narrative. Keep in mind, I’m talking about Jim himself, not the Spectre entity.

Yeah, but time's a non-factor in comic books. Superman and Batman are like 80 now and don't look a day over...35? 40?

[j9ac9k]

I think Dr Fate may have fared the best because he doesn't seem relegated to just the JSA and the Golden Age.

[Ra-El]

Best - Jay Garrick, while he was replaced by Barry, spawned a entire superhero family and never had the spotlight again, the Flash franchise always respect the character and the importance he have to no just to the Flash family but to the DC universe.

Hawkman have also fared fairly well, all things considered. His history is a little messy, but at least he have been able to hold a solo comic from time to time, even with him been basically banned from ever be part of the JL main host, since they will always prefer to use Hawkgirl for various reasons. And right now he have one of the best comics on DC and Venditti have found a way to make his several versions work.

Worst: the original Mr. Terrific, the only thing I know about him is that Michael Holt isn't the original one.

[bat39]

Jay Garrick without a doubt has fared the best. He's been fully embraced by the contemporary Flash franchise and in many ways is arguably the face of the Golden Age DCU right now. And its fitting, considering how the return of Jay to comics in "Flash of Two Worlds" is what kickstarted the revival of the Golden Age characters.

Hawkman too. Carter Hall is now the default version of the character and has 'won' that battle over Katar Hol. Yes, Venditti has retconned it such that they're the same but ultimately, when you come down to it, the reincarnation origin and the secret identity of Carter Hall the archeologist is what has endured more than the Thanagarian space cop who came to earth. One of those rare cases (the only case?) where the Golden Age concept for a character/franchise superseded the Silver Age.

Dr. Fate has become a pretty significant presence in the DCU over time, and especially in other media - which is all the more impressive given that he isn't tied to a Silver Age or Modern Age legacy.

I'd argue that Wildcat has done reasonably well on that score too.

A bit torn about Alan Scott. He is most definitely NOT to the GL franchise what Jay is to the Flash franchise. But he's still a pretty recognizable character today, and is one of the 'faces' of the Golden Age along with Jay. Plus, in a Trinity-free JSA and Golden Age, the notion of him being the top-dog has persisted for a while now (and it does seem like DC was going to lean heavily into it with 5G) so there's that.

As for who's fared worst...I'd argue all of the others apart from the ones I've named above, for the most part, since they mostly fade into obscurity when there isn't a spotlight on the JSA - and if there is a spotlight on the JSA, then they are supporting characters or part of the backstory at best. It's telling that today, Stargirl is a bigger part of the JSA 'brand' such as it is than, say, Johnny Thunder or Al Pratt.

First Thing: Great thread idea daBronzeBomma!

My patella reflex for best was The Flash; he was really elevated as An Elder Statesman by Waid, et al. However, when I think on who has held titles, and been a presence, I have to say Black Canary.

I know. Depending on the retcon or reboot, she's not the same Dinah Drake that kicked Johnny Thunder out of his own Flash Comics feature back in the waning days of The Golden Age. In fact, I don't think she's been a Drake in nearly 70 years. But the core of the character has remained. Everything about her is rooted in that original sexy @$$-kicker of.the old days.

Worst: Hawkman. Gang, I love him deeply, but he's a mess.

You make an interesting point about Black Canary. Because of the convulted web of retcons surrounding her, its difficult to tell whether to regard her as essentially one character who was split into two for continuity/timeline reasons, or two characters.

If its the latter, then arguably, the OG Black Canary Dinah Drake has 'lost' the battle. To the extent that she's ever mentioned, its usually as a part of the backstory of the 'modern' version who's the kick-ass JLA member, Birds of Prey founder and extended part of the Green Arrow family. Hell, in the Arrowverse, the character who's arguably supposed to take her place as the original Canary, Sara Lance, really has more in common with the modern Dinah Laurel Lance version from the comics than Dinah Drake (ditto with the actual 'Dinah Drake' on that show).

But if its the same character (and at one point, it literally was due to some memory transplant story)...then yeah, Black Canary has arguably fared even better than Jay Garrick.

[Sutekh]

I think Dr Fate may have fared the best because he doesn't seem relegated to just the JSA and the Golden Age.

He does seem to have been the most successful at finding a niche outside of being 'the original X' like Jay or Alan. (His showing up in the Young Justice cartoon, for instance, serving a role quite outside of 'elder statesman.')

But yeah, Jay, Alan, Specter, Wildcat, all have gotten a decent run.

Al Pratt, Johnny Thunder, Wesley Dodds and Dr. McNider might be the one's who've gotten the least play.

The Thunderbolt itself has seen play, or Al's godson, or Dr. McNider's protege, or a vastly different 'Sandman,' but those golden age characters, not so much.