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  1. #91
    Spectacular Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    I thought the rule was that the answer to a bad retcon is almost never another retcon?

  2. #92
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    So how exactly does One More Day affect Sins Past? Mephisto changed the past so MJ and Peter aren't married... So the Sins Past events have to at least be altered since that story had MJ and Peter married... plus MJ played a big role in that story.

    Can someone clarify how this works exactly?

  3. #93
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    So how exactly does One More Day affect Sins Past? Mephisto changed the past so MJ and Peter aren't married... So the Sins Past events have to at least be altered since that story had MJ and Peter married... plus MJ played a big role in that story.

    Can someone clarify how this works exactly?
    The retcon would be that the events of Sins Past occurred but when Peter learned about Gwen's children, he wasn't married to MJ; they were living together.

    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Sins Past is never going away. Why? Think of this quote by Ronald Reagan: “Any publicity ( even bad publicity) is better then no publicity.” Are there over 1,000 Spider-Man comics better then Sins Past? Of course there are. But how many of those issues get discussed as much as Sins Past? 10 maybe 20? The same concept applies to the Clone Saga and OMD/BND which is why they are not only being erased, but returning in Miles comic.
    I don't think it's this. Unpopular comics have gotten retconned before.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The retcon would be that the events of Sins Past occurred but when Peter learned about Gwen's children, he wasn't married to MJ; they were living together.
    Ok thanks. But that's even more bizarre... what was the point of the story if they still remain a couple? I mean both from an in-story and a meta perspective... in-story what does Mephisto accomplish? I guess May Parker is never born. But meta perspective, what do the writers actually achieve? I thought the whole point was to make Peter single again.

    Just reading this interview:

    https://www.cbr.com/the-one-more-day...ada-pt-3-of-5/

    I'm even more confused... what a headache... the mental gymnastics... All because they were afraid of Peter having kids? This is some of the most convoluted crap I've ever read, and I'm talking about the interview not the story itself...

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    https://www.cbr.com/the-one-more-day...ada-pt-3-of-5/

    I'm even more confused... what a headache... the mental gymnastics... All because they were afraid of Peter having kids? This is some of the most convoluted crap I've ever read, and I'm talking about the interview not the story itself...
    And people say Quesada and JMS shouldn't be banned from Marvel? Every time I read some of their interviews I have the urge to stop because they are able to tell so many BS I'm amazed. These two have NO IDEA who Spider-Man is and what he stands for. I feel sick thinking they had control over the character for years, they almost made me stop reading comics. Marvel should have laughed in their face hearing about Sins Past and One More Day, and then fire them immediately and forever.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    Ok thanks. But that's even more bizarre... what was the point of the story if they still remain a couple? I mean both from an in-story and a meta perspective... in-story what does Mephisto accomplish? I guess May Parker is never born. But meta perspective, what do the writers actually achieve? I thought the whole point was to make Peter single again.

    Just reading this interview:

    https://www.cbr.com/the-one-more-day...ada-pt-3-of-5/

    I'm even more confused... what a headache... the mental gymnastics... All because they were afraid of Peter having kids? This is some of the most convoluted crap I've ever read, and I'm talking about the interview not the story itself...

    Yeah, I rank one more day as the single worst comic I've ever read, and I doubt that will ever change.
    Even the clone saga, for all its flaws, at least had the decency to put things back at the end while giving us a few new characters.
    At least Maximum Carnage was fun, it was just stretched out over 14 issues for no reason.

    One more day muddles things up to the point where the story becomes both one of the most important things in Spider-man lore, and also the most pointless as in Universe, it changes nothing.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by federicodettofred View Post
    And people say Quesada and JMS shouldn't be banned from Marvel? Every time I read some of their interviews I have the urge to stop because they are able to tell so many BS I'm amazed. These two have NO IDEA who Spider-Man is and what he stands for. I feel sick thinking they had control over the character for years, they almost made me stop reading comics. Marvel should have laughed in their face hearing about Sins Past and One More Day, and then fire them immediately and forever.
    I didn't know JMS wrote both stories... damn. Wish he'd stayed in television. I loved Babylon 5.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post

    One more day muddles things up to the point where the story becomes both one of the most important things in Spider-man lore, and also the most pointless as in Universe, it changes nothing.
    Yeah... it's not like you can ignore it. At the same time what was the point of it?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The retcon would be that the events of Sins Past occurred but when Peter learned about Gwen's children, he wasn't married to MJ; they were living together.


    I don't think it's this. Unpopular comics have gotten retconned before.
    What exactly is it then? In the Miles Clone Saga they specifically compared it to the Peter story ( not to mention Jackal in Ghost Spider). Marvel knows quite well what people think of stories like Clone Saga, OMD, BND, The Other and Sins Past, but they keep coming back. Why? Can they retcon a story? Sure Chapter One became Ultimate, but they continue to keep those stories going despite how reviled they are.

  10. #100
    Incredible Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    They dont even need to erased it or reworked.
    They can put all that arc in an alternate universe and never speak of that abomination again.

    The multiverse exits for this purpose, where you can keep the cake and eat it.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    I didn't know JMS wrote both stories... damn. Wish he'd stayed in television. I loved Babylon 5.

    I wouldn't put OMD on JMS. He hated the idea and it goes against his entire run.
    It's really just the brainchild of Joe Quesda.

    However Sins Past was his idea and yeah, that wasn't... Great.

  12. #102
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    I can't really blame JMS for Sin's Past since he only did the story under the belief that it would be erased from continuity at the end of his run.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  13. #103
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    What exactly is it then? In the Miles Clone Saga they specifically compared it to the Peter story ( not to mention Jackal in Ghost Spider). Marvel knows quite well what people think of stories like Clone Saga, OMD, BND, The Other and Sins Past, but they keep coming back. Why? Can they retcon a story? Sure Chapter One became Ultimate, but they continue to keep those stories going despite how reviled they are.
    It differs on a case by case basis.

    The most reviled stories tend to be famous and affect the status quo; these are the types of stories that tend to be referenced. If there was a poorly illustrated poorly written three issue mini-series, people aren't going to care as much because it doesn't impact the characters.

    The Clone Saga introduced some new characters who have fan followings. Some of the things that made it unpopular (the revelation that the Peter Parker in the comics for twenty years wasn't the real deal) no longer apply.

    The original clone saga wasn't that bad, so some of the source material was okay. The Alien Costume saga's reputation isn't affected by a lame 1990s Venom mini-series.

    One More Day is complicated in that it did have some storytelling objectives, which haven't been reversed. It ended the marriage, made Peter's identity secret again, and brought back Harry. All of that is still part of the book.

    Sins Past isn't referenced much nowadays, but retconning it would be difficult because you would need to explain why someone would want to convince people that Gwen Stacy secretly gave birth to Norman Osborn's twins. It's a lot of work to reverse fourteen issues worth of comics (Sins Past, Sins Remembered and the American Son mini-series.) It could easily get retconned if it fits someone's larger story. That just hasn't been the case.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  14. #104
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    Yeah, the only way you can retcon Sins Past at this point is just shrug and say 'it was all clones' basically fixing a broken issue with an even bigger broken explanation.
    The best case for writers is to ignore it.

    Also, just a side note, I don't hate Sins Past or even dislike it as much as others here, it was the first story I read when I started to get into Spider-man comics so for that, I have a weird nostalgia for it.
    That being said, it is a bad comic overall.

  15. #105
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    Yeah, the only way you can retcon Sins Past at this point is just shrug and say 'it was all clones' basically fixing a broken issue with an even bigger broken explanation.
    The best case for writers is to ignore it.

    Also, just a side note, I don't hate Sins Past or even dislike it as much as others here, it was the first story I read when I started to get into Spider-man comics so for that, I have a weird nostalgia for it.
    That being said, it is a bad comic overall.
    If Joe Kelly or Nick Spencer has a clone story, they might fold a Sins Past retcon into it.

    But I don't think they want to tell a clone story just to retcon Sins Past.

    This is also something that may interfere with existing plans for Norman Osborn. So the stars would have to align for a retcon given how convoluted it was, and how they need several things that aren't always available (space to tell a TPB-length retcon; Norman Osborn being available.)
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

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