Some general post-crisis continuity questions (mostly Superman)

[al-f]

But isn't Rebirth Superman Post-Crisis Superman, with the kid (Jon) being born in the Convergence series (or new 52 universe in hiding, or something like that), the merged with new 52 Supes?

Also, if Rebirth is a new universe, what was the trigger for it (like its Crisis or Flashpoint)? It seems like it just continues where new 52 left of?

[Restingvoice]

But isn't Rebirth Superman Post-Crisis Superman, with the kid (Jon) being born in the Convergence series (or new 52 universe in hiding, or something like that), the merged with new 52 Supes?

Also, if Rebirth is a new universe, what was the trigger for it (like its Crisis or Flashpoint)? It seems like it just continues where new 52 left of?

Oh right, you didn't know... no... Jon is no longer born in Convergence. After the Superman Reborn story where the two versions are combined, Jon was born in Fortress of Solitude in this Earth, helped by Batman and Wonder Woman while the rest of the heroes cover the world for Superman.

The recombination didn't just recombine the two versions but made new history

I'd argue that Rebirth itself, right from the start is already a new continuity because they revealed a new Wonder Woman origin that didn't exist in New 52, and they already hinted that Post Crisis Superman is not what he thinks he is (he's only half of a complete Superman from this earth, not from Convergence) and most importantly the back story of the rise of superheroes is extended ten years, making everyone automatically 5 years older than New 52 without anyone or any event doing anything.

Then Superman Reborn happened, and it rewrites that one. There are no more two Supermen and Loises, just one version. Reborn.

[al-f]

This is such a convoluted mess... I don't mind a good solid reboot, but just commit to it, don't to a half ass version of it then half-backpedal all the time. I can't understand who is who : )

I honestly don't know where to start here, if I want to continue reading Superman/Batman, don't know which version of the character I'm reading. It just feels easier to ignore whatever is going on in the main books and just do elseworld type stores, like that last knight on earth.

[Restingvoice]

This is such a convoluted mess... I don't mind a good solid reboot, but just commit to it, don't to a half ass version of it then half-backpedal all the time. I can't understand who is who : )

I honestly don't know where to start here, if I want to continue reading Superman/Batman, don't know which version of the character I'm reading. It just feels easier to ignore whatever is going on in the main books and just do elseworld type stores, like that last knight on earth.

Oh, just start with the newest one. The one where Superman/Batman's fighting Batman Who Laughs. Since that's already long after Reborn.

...

Action Comics #977-978 was when Superman reviewed his life after Reborn. It will catch you up on what's in and out. Forget about the convoluted process and just start there.

[wonder39]

I like to add a question: What was the behind-the-scenes stuff with Wonder Woman?

Like, why did they decide to have Diana debut concurrently with her title instead of making her first storyline and her confrontation with Ares as a sort of Year One story like Man of Steel and Batman: Year One? That would have saved Donna from having another confusing recon and saved Diana's spot on the JLA as a founding member. With Legend no withstanding, it wasn't like she interacted with the other heroes before the Invasion story, or am I not remembering it right?
They simply could have made Vanessa younger during the beginning and once Diana saved the Earth from Ares, they could have aged her up as a teenager in a time-jump. With Donna it would have been simpler to have one of the Greek goddesses save her from the fire (or a sinking ship off the coast of Themyscira) and have her raised as Diana's sister. Or would seeing a young girl in the background during her first few issue been too much to explain for the readers? I for one would have liked to see this young girl hiding behind the Amazons' legs as Diana prepared to leave with Steve.
That would have left Marv and George to expound on Donna's story in the Titans, explaining how, why, and when she made it onto Themyscira and how she got her powers. Because it never was explained to my satisfaction how Donna had appeared in Man's world with the same aesthetics as Diana years before her, even down to a golden lasso.


As for the Superman/Superboy LoSH stuff. All they could have done was have Clark do his teen super-heroics in the future as sort of a training course and simply not do it in his present. John could have done that in one page. It could have explained how and why he was such an exemplary hero, not because of his vast powers, but through his experience with young heroes -- he could led because he seen how super-teams worked. He could defend because he learned how to best use his vast powers with moderation. And DC could have said it wasn't for that long if the had to recon his stay in the future -- maybe for four summers while he was out of school. Four years is a long time in comic-time.

As for Supergirl, she's a harder save. I can see how DC wouldn't want to make her heroic death a vain one and how Byrne thought Kal-El should be the only surviving Krytonian (even if I didn't agree). All I can say is I liked Laurel Gand, especially when she became Andromeda with that fly costume in the early 90s.

Re Diana, it's my understanding the powers in charge (DC editorial) liked thenidea od Diana being the fish out of water. Of course, that messed up SO much stuff that had to have a bandage slapped on it....

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Re Diana, it's my understanding the powers in charge (DC editorial) liked thenidea od Diana being the fish out of water. Of course, that messed up SO much stuff that had to have a bandage slapped on it....

This decision, along with the similar decision to retcon away Superboy from the LSH and Hawkman & Hawkwoman's first arrival on Earth, were the three biggest blows to the Post-Crisis history that it never fully recovered from. Had they not made those two decisions, I don't think any of the many, many continuity reshuffles that have occurred since would have been necessary.

[al-f]

So what happened to WW? Not that familiar with the character.
After reading crisis my understanding was.. earth 2 WW just vanished up in smoke (joined the gods, or whatever); earth 1 WW in theory remained there but, then was reset, same as Superman (I read the first issues of Perez's relaunch). That's the extent of my knowledge, don't know about further resets.

[DrNewGod]

So what happened to WW? Not that familiar with the character.
After reading crisis my understanding was.. earth 2 WW just vanished up in smoke (joined the gods, or whatever); earth 1 WW in theory remained there but, then was reset, same as Superman (I read the first issues of Perez's relaunch). That's the extent of my knowledge, don't know about further resets.

Yes. Following Crisis, The E2 Wonder Woman and her husband, General Trevor, were taken to Olympus, given immortality, and never touched again AFIK, nor was that depiction of The Pantheon.

At the end of Crisis, E1 WW was zapped by The Anti-Monitor, and devolved back into the clay from which she was formed. Those remnants returned to Paradise Island. Which was also never seen again.

The Perez WW reboot was more than a year after Crisis, and was a complete start from scratch, with the Amazons, and their Pantheon being tied much more closely to a literal interpretation of Greek Myth, or at least, Perez' preferred interpretation of Greek myth.

I have heard that ALL properties at DC were due to get that kind of from-scratch reboot, but TPTB balked at tinkering so hard with their biggest sellers (at the time, TNTT and LoSH) in the 11th hour. As a result, a lot of editorial chaos ensued. Batman was basically tweaked, Superman was heavily retconned, and WW was complete restarted.