Amazing Spider-Man #50 (SPOILERS)

[Spidey_62]

Small correction, but Spec #189 was Harry’s twisted family dinner. One of my all-time favorite issues... I think it’s even better than #200.

Same, love that story. As soon as the preview pages were released showing Kindred setting a dinner table I pointed to that cause it's such a Harry thing.

[Web_Spinner]

So, I'm not sure if this is obvious but are most of you guys thinking that Harry's transformation to kindred is a result of Pete and MJ getting back together (Peter about to propose) and this is effectively undoing the OMD deal, which is tied to Harry's return to life, and that perhaps Mephisto brought him back to life (after OMD) as a failsafe to keep the deal intact?

So basically, if Pete and MJ get back together, Harry turns into a demon and haunts them to prevent them getting back together.

So Peter effectively has to choose between Harry and MJ?

And the angle of Peters biggest sin was making a deal with the devil to save Aunt May, but he let George Stacey, Gwen, and even Harry die and didn't go to such lengths to save any of them...instead, he made a selfish decision to save May...

Anyway, done interesting ideas how all this could tie back to OMD...

The one thing I hated about that sorry most is it seemed like it was incomplete and there were no consequences for his decisions...so maybe that's what we're getting now..??

[Spidey_62]

So, I'm not sure if this is obvious but are most of you guys thinking that Harry's transformation to kindred is a result of Pete and MJ getting back together (Peter about to propose) and this is effectively undoing the OMD deal, which is tied to Harry's return to life, and that perhaps Mephisto brought him back to life (after OMD) as a failsafe to keep the deal intact?

So basically, if Pete and MJ get back together, Harry turns into a demon and haunts them to prevent them getting back together.

So Peter effectively has to choose between Harry and MJ?

And the angle of Peters biggest sin was making a deal with the devil to save Aunt May, but he let George Stacey, Gwen, and even Harry die and didn't go to such lengths to save any of them...instead, he made a selfish decision to save May...

Anyway, done interesting ideas how all this could tie back to OMD...

The one thing I hated about that sorry most is it seemed like it was incomplete and there were no consequences for his decisions...so maybe that's what we're getting now..??

I mean, that's what makes the most sense to me as to what the big sin he doesn't remember could be. That's a big piece of leverage Harry would have over Peter to really hammer down what his point is by saying Peter's a hypocrite, plus the fact that Peter caved again by letting the demon powered Sin-Eater cleanse Norman- that only would heighten Harry's point even more. Harry's been in hell so it's absolutely feasible he could know about Peter and MJ erasing their marriage via Mephisto.

Spencer has made a lot of references to OMD scratching at the surface of Peter's brain this run, especially that one panel showing the hand while he thinks something is missing. Doctor Strange lambasting Peter for essentially making a deal with the devil by letting Norman to be cleansed by the demon powered Sin-Eater. Then there was the Sins Past reference in 850, Spencer hasn't been afraid to remind readers of the long history of these characters-blemishes and all.

Side note, I just remembered in the Spider-Man: Lifeline mini-series (a personal favorite) Spidey is confronted with the possiblity of bringing back one of his deceased loved ones and uncle Ben, George Stacy, and Gwen are the heads he's presented with. Harry was dead at that point and he wasn't even an option for Peter that he was so broken up by. That story was never referenced anywhere again except by Nick Spencer in the Gog arc.

[TheCape]

I mean, that's what makes the most sense to me as to what the big sin he doesn't remember could be. That's a big piece of leverage Harry would have over Peter to really hammer down what his point is by saying Peter's a hypocrite, plus the fact that Peter caved again by letting the Sin-Eater cleanse Norman- that only would heighten Harry's point even more. Harry's been in hell so it's absolutely feasible he could know about Peter and MJ erasing their marriage via Mephisto.

Spencer has made a lot of references to OMD scratching at the surface of Peter's brain this run, especially that one panel showing the hand while he thinks something is missing. Doctor Strange lambasting Peter for essentially making a deal with the devil by letting Norman to be cleansed by the demon powered Sin-Eater. Then there was the Sins Past reference in 850, Spencer hasn't been afraid to remind readers of the long history of these characters-blemishes and all.

Side note, I just remembered in the Spider-Man: Lifeline mini-series (a personal favorite) Spidey is confronted with the possiblity of bringing back a lost loved one and uncle Ben, George Stacy, and Gwen are the heads he's presented with. Harry was dead at that point and he wasn't even an option for Peter that he was so broken up by. That story was never referenced anywhere again except by Nick Spencer in the Gog arc.

I still can't believe that Spencer remembered that Lifeline existed lol.

[Spidey_62]

I still can't believe remembered that Lifeline existed lol.

It made me inexplicably happy. Love Steve Rude's art, wish he'd get more industry work again just in general.

[WebSlingWonder]

I still can't believe that Spencer remembered that Lifeline existed lol.

That's Nick Spencer for you! He's a guy that does his homework, and I absolutely love that.

[Spidey5640]

Small correction, but Spec #189 was Harry’s twisted family dinner. One of my all-time favorite issues... I think it’s even better than #200.

thanks, been awhile since i read the arc but that dinner always stood out to me.

[classicgmer]

I get the feeling it'll be more like Peter David's version, where he's colossal douche who's at least trying to be good, him just being villanous would kinda suck, but who knows? Maybe Ben won't show up at all, only thing I really doubt is if Ben is around, I don't think it'll be like Spider-Geddon where he's back to normal that easily.

He was keeping his distance from everyone during Spider-Geddon not really saying much of anything to anyone before Jennix inadvertantly took his insanity from him and then afterwards it was mentioned he was back to factory settings or whatever he said.


Like you i'm kinda doubtful he'll pop up at all but i know his "factory settings" weren't douchebag or mentally unhinged...I think if anything he'd be somebody that would assist Peter from afar from time to time but generally be viewed as a wildcard whose intentions aren't entirely and immediately clear.

[Dzika_Sowa]

I am wondering if it's still possible for Kindred, to not be Harry. Maybe Spencer is playing all of us right now?

The chances are slim, but remember what Kindred told Norman - he isn't what Norman think he is.

Kindred's rage, after Peter revealed his identity to Felicia also seems out of character a bit.

[Yvonmukluk]

I am wondering if it's still possible for Kindred, to not be Harry. Maybe Spencer is playing all of us right now?

The chances are slim, but remember what Kindred told Norman - he isn't what Norman think he is.

Kindred's rage, after Peter revealed his identity to Felicia also seems out of character a bit.

Considering that they also stated it's Harry in the letters page and Spencer's giving interviews about Harry being Kindred, I feel it's grasping at straws.

[stillanerd]

So here's another one of my crazy theories: What if the reason Harry became Kindred was because he re-learned Peter was Spider-Man?

What if the scenario is something like this: Harry dies as seen in Spectacular Spider-Man #200. While dead he suffers the torments of Hell, but then comes back to life due to the Goblin Formula he took or some such. The result is Harry has no memory of his time as the Goblin, his time in Hell, or Peter being Spider-Man. Cue all the stuff that happened with Harry all through Brand New Day up to the Red Goblin story. Then, sometime after the Red Goblin story, Harry gets his hands on something magical say...a fragment of the Tablet of Life and Death? That tablet ends up restoring all of his memories, including his out-of-body experience in Hell and that Peter is Spider-Man. And the knowledge causes Harry's mind to snap. The reason Harry, as Kindred, can do all these magical powers isn't because he became a demon; it's from the tablet fragment. This would also explain Norman's outburst to Sin-Eater in this issue saying that Harry isn't some all-powerful demon, too.

This would also explain why Harry/Kindred has such a hold over Kingpin. Harry/Kindred, I believe, promised that if Kingpin does what he says, he'll restore Vanessa to life, right? Well, Kingpin has been trying to go after Boomerang because he knows where a fragment of the Tablet of Life and Death is. And he wants that tablet fragment to bring back Vanessa himself, cutting Kindred off at the pass. Maybe the reason Harry/Kindred can bring Vanessa back like he did with Sin-Eater is because he has his own tablet fragment.

[RD155]

I both enjoyed and disliked the reveal. Enjoyed it because it was well done and finally we get some answers but damn did it feel like it just dragged on forever. Granted some of the wait was out of Spencers control with everything that took place in the "real" world but still....2 years.

Anyway, enjoyed the issue. Was a bit hard to keep up with at times and the art was a touch "Messy" in some segments but all in all I liked it. I am one of fans that enjoy the darker Spider-man stories so this whole horror atmosphere is a very welcome change. The panel with Kindred and the Stacys at the dinner table was so well done from an artistic point of view. Loved it.

I was hoping for more of a OMD connection because I was one of those people hoping that Kindred would be a OMD version of Peter or something of that sort. Granted, I really still think that this story is leaning towards addressing OMD. I mean Strange even says that Peter made a deal with a demonic entity and that it would come back to haunt him. Unless I missed something that would have to be referring to OMD. Is that absolutely anything else story wise that Strange could be referring to besides OMD?

[Huntsman Spider]

I both enjoyed and disliked the reveal. Enjoyed it because it was well done and finally we get some answers but damn did it feel like it just dragged on forever. Granted some of the wait was out of Spencers control with everything that took place in the "real" world but still....2 years.

Anyway, enjoyed the issue. Was a bit hard to keep up with at times and the art was a touch "Messy" in some segments but all in all I liked it. I am one of fans that enjoy the darker Spider-man stories so this whole horror atmosphere is a very welcome change. The panel with Kindred and the Stacys at the dinner table was so well done from an artistic point of view. Loved it.

I was hoping for more of a OMD connection because I was one of those people hoping that Kindred would be a OMD version of Peter or something of that sort. Granted, I really still think that this story is leaning towards addressing OMD. I mean Strange even says that Peter made a deal with a demonic entity and that it would come back to haunt him. Unless I missed something that would have to be referring to OMD. Is that absolutely anything else story wise that Strange could be referring to besides OMD?

Throwing Norman Osborn to the Kindred-empowered Sin-Eater, I would think, since Peter knew there was something else, something darker behind that, and yet he decided that ending Osborn as a threat was worth the damage Sin-Eater or Kindred could do after Osborn was "cleansed" of his sins.

[Gwen Parker]

Just read #50, and wow. Kindred is Harry? Norman actually cleansed? The Order of the Web Possessed? Kindred seemingly digging up Gwen and her father's corpses to set them up at a dinner table? Some big stuff. Also, speaking of Captain Stacy's and Gwen Stacy's corpses... why is Kindred doing that?

[NC_Yankee]

Just read #50, and wow. Kindred is Harry? Norman actually cleansed? The Order of the Web Possessed? Kindred seemingly digging up Gwen and her father's corpses to set them up at a dinner table? Some big stuff. Also, speaking of Captain Stacy's and Gwen Stacy's corpses... why is Kindred doing that?

It is interesting that Kindred has power to not only take people from Hell ( like Mysterio and Sin Eater), but from Heaven as well ( in the case of George and Gwen). This is without question tied into the Mysterio/MJ movie. The fact they had an actor as Otto in the movie ( not just using ASM 121 ) is proof of it.