Amazing Spider-Man #50 (SPOILERS)

[Lukmendes]

It's comics so I imagine quite a bit.

Fair enough lol.

To be confuse with Gabriel of all people,

Seriously man, it's happening so much, like a running gag.

Hell, even reminds me of that running gag from an episode from the Justice League cartoon (Pretty sure it was Unlimited) where civilians somehow were confusing Booster Gold with Green Lantern, we're pretty much having the same thing happening here .

that must be a blow to Kindred's pride lol.

Kindred: I am the son of Norman Osborn.
People: You are the Grey Goblin?!
Kindred:......

Considering Kindred leans on the 4th wall a bit (By saying shit like him killing the psychologist brainwashed into think he's Mysterio in #24 would be annoying if it was a dream and "hating when they do that", making a similar comment about the "dream within a dream" from #44 saying it's a cheat, and saying a lot of times how Peter must be running out of patience by waiting so long), wonder if he'll make a comment about Gabriel when he reveals himself to Peter and sound annoyed about it :P

[TheCape]

Fair enough lol.



Seriously man, it's happening so much, like a running gag.

Hell, even reminds me of that running gag from an episode from the Justice League cartoon (Pretty sure it was Unlimited) where civilians somehow were confusing Booster Gold with Green Lantern, we're pretty much having the same thing happening here .



Considering Kindred leans on the 4th wall a bit (By saying shit like him killing the psychologist brainwashed into think he's Mysterio in #24 would be annoying if it was a dream and "hating when they do that", making a similar comment about the "dream within a dream" from #44 saying it's a cheat, and saying a lot of times how Peter must be running out of patience by waiting so long), wonder if he'll make a comment about Gabriel when he reveals himself to Peter and sound annoyed about it :P

He probably would say something like "the one and only, we all know that there is nobody else ".

[classicgmer]

I can understand that point of view. It does seem like there’s a lot of disparate stories going on at once, but I’m really intrigued about how things play out over the next couple months. I’m just really excited about the Osborn connection. I’ve always disagreed with the thought that Norman and/or Harry need to be shelved for any significant amount of time. I think much of the best drama and stories with the highest stakes revolve around them. Regardless of how many of us guessed that Kindred was Harry, I don’t think that negates the fact that it’s a solid choice with dramatic storytelling potential.

Switching gears a bit - did anyone else read the letters column at the end of the issue? Lowe responds to one letter with a mention of Ben Reilly, saying he was almost part of this story. Then, he teases to keep reading, implying that Spencer may have plans for Ben. What do you all think of Ben being involved at some point in the near future?

I'm guessing if there are any plans it would be something along the lines of Ben attempting to atone for his actions during Clone Conspiracy now that he's apparently of sound mind and judgement.

[Snoop Dogg]

me trying to reconcile this cool as hell genre savvy chessmaster simultaneously being the biggest fuckboy in the spider-man mythos

[H-E-D]

I got so horny reading #850 and watching Kindred dig up corpses and then the reveal made me flatline. 2 years!!!

Remember when Hydra Cap was revealed in #10???!!!!!

I thought Hydra Cap was revealed in #1 lol

[Snoop Dogg]

I thought Hydra Cap was revealed in #1 lol

spencer cap is one book pretending to be a million books so six issues of sam cap, three or four of standoff stuff, then steve cap #1 dropped

[Lukmendes]

I can understand that point of view. It does seem like there’s a lot of disparate stories going on at once, but I’m really intrigued about how things play out over the next couple months. I’m just really excited about the Osborn connection. I’ve always disagreed with the thought that Norman and/or Harry need to be shelved for any significant amount of time. I think much of the best drama and stories with the highest stakes revolve around them. Regardless of how many of us guessed that Kindred was Harry, I don’t think that negates the fact that it’s a solid choice with dramatic storytelling potential.

Switching gears a bit - did anyone else read the letters column at the end of the issue? Lowe responds to one letter with a mention of Ben Reilly, saying he was almost part of this story. Then, he teases to keep reading, implying that Spencer may have plans for Ben. What do you all think of Ben being involved at some point in the near future?

ASM#25 did tease he would be in the story:



While it's possible he won't be in at all, since ASM#600 teased that Jessica would be in Grim Hunt, only for her to not show up at all, Last Remains isn't over yet, so Ben could show up.

I'm guessing if there are any plans it would be something along the lines of Ben attempting to atone for his actions during Clone Conspiracy now that he's apparently of sound mind and judgement.

I'm not sure Spencer would go the easy route and say that Ben is completely, 100% cured, because his run is giving consequences to some shit, like Harry's resurrection not being that simple, Mysterio having PTSD, Peter losing everything because he was found to plagiarize, so I don't think Ben would be back to normal that easily.

It's also worth keeping in mind that Spencer's run takes some stuff from Peter David's Ben run, like the souls from Clone Conspiracy being the original person, and the whole Mysterio being actually dead (Peter David introduced that all the way back Friendly Neighborhood comic, around the time of Civil War, which he brought back in Ben's comic), so again, if Ben shows up in LR, I don't see it being like Spider-Geddon where he's cured that easily (Which was a half assed explanation anyways), maybe he won't be as evil as in the ending (He tried to kill Kaine after all lol), but I don't see him being good like before either.

[Spidey_62]

^ That's a big reason why I'm enjoying this run so much is that it feels like there are consequences again. In order for things like BND to happen, or Parker Industries going so big, or Superior to last as long as it did, it involved a lot of trying to fit square shapes into round slots.

[classicgmer]

ASM#25 did tease he would be in the story:



While it's possible he won't be in at all, since ASM#600 teased that Jessica would be in Grim Hunt, only for her to not show up at all, Last Remains isn't over yet, so Ben could show up.



I'm not sure Spencer would go the easy route and say that Ben is completely, 100% cured, because his run is giving consequences to some shit, like Harry's resurrection not being that simple, Mysterio having PTSD, Peter losing everything because he was found to plagiarize, so I don't think Ben would be back to normal that easily.

It's also worth keeping in mind that Spencer's run takes some stuff from Peter David's Ben run, like the souls from Clone Conspiracy being the original person, and the whole Mysterio being actually dead (Peter David introduced that all the way back Friendly Neighborhood comic, around the time of Civil War, which he brought back in Ben's comic), so again, if Ben shows up in LR, I don't see it being like Spider-Geddon where he's cured that easily (Which was a half assed explanation anyways), maybe he won't be as evil as in the ending (He tried to kill Kaine after all lol), but I don't see him being good like before either.

I wouldn't mind that Ben is still trying to adjust and find his way post CC and PAD's run but if he's A. still trying to justify he was somehow in the right with the whole New U nonsense or B. still acting like a complete douchebag like he was in PAD's run then Marvel is just going to be spinning their wheels with him yet again.

[Dawidos]

I'm wondering: what if both theses are compatible? That Kindred is Harry Osborn, but not only Harry Osborn. Why he said in TASM #37 about Norman Osborn - He thinks he knows who I am. What I am"? Maybe there are no two Harry Osborn (pre-OMD and post-OMD). Maybe explaination of his return from the death by Dan Slott and revelation about him being Kindred by Nick Spencer are both true.

Let's see. Harry got ressurected by Goblin formula, but in the moment of his clinical death something went into his body from Hell (pre-OMD Peter - part of his soul?). It used him as a portal to the world of living and Harry became a vessel of this demonic force. It was growing in him like a parasite, becoming stronger and stronger until it was strong enough to completely overpower him (transform him into the current form) and began its vendetta against Spider-Man. That's why we didn't see Harry Osborn in the Nick Spencer's run.

What if Harry Osborn is a puppet/host of Kindred original identity? What if his reflection in the mirror in TASM #50 is a symbol of his slavery to this evil force, a proof that Kindred is now in the full control and Harry Osborn is a prisoner of his own body and his soul is trapped on "the other side".

So technically Kindred is Harry Osborn but that's not the whole truth. He is something more, hybrid and therefore the amalgamation of a demon (pre-OMD Peter?) and Norman Osborn's son, which would explain his strong connection to Spider-Man and Green Goblin. His thoughts are mixed by those two presences.

I believe this theory could pay respect to works by other Spider-Man's creators. That Harry really "died" as a Peter Parker's friend, that he didn't went to Hell being classified as a bad person, that his "ressurection" by Goblin formula and Mysterio is valid, that his latest adventures (BND, relationship with Menace, American Son, becoming a father of a second son, still being a friend of Parker, working in Parker Industries and Alchemax) are his experiences, not a clone, a fake or other doppelganger.

I believe also that this theory could make a bigger revelation than Kindred is vengeful Harry Osborn. From TASM #30-31 most readers got convinced that Harry Osborn is Kindred and for them it was the obvious solution to his identity. So, yeah, they guessed right, but that's no whole story and twists and shocking revelations are still in waiting Not mentioning OMD connection and theory about a fragment of Peter's soul, which I, Spidey_62, Hugo Strange and Kingkalamari still believe in. I suppose

[t-spider]

I'm wondering: what if both theses are compatible? That Kindred is Harry Osborn, but not only Harry Osborn. Why he said in TASM #37 about Norman Osborn - He thinks he knows who I am. What I am"? Maybe there are no two Harry Osborn (pre-OMD and post-OMD). Maybe explaination of his return from the death by Dan Slott and revelation about him being Kindred by Nick Spencer are both true.

Let's see. Harry got ressurected by Goblin formula, but in the moment of his clinical death something went into his body from Hell (pre-OMD Peter - part of his soul?). It used him as a portal to the world of living and Harry became a vessel of this demonic force. It was growing in him like a parasite, becoming stronger and stronger until it was strong enough to completely overpower him (transform him into the current form) and began its vendetta against Spider-Man. That's why we didn't see Harry Osborn in the Nick Spencer's run.

What if Harry Osborn is a puppet/host of Kindred original identity? What if his reflection in the mirror in TASM #50 is a symbol of his slavery to this evil force, a proof that Kindred is now in the full control and Harry Osborn is a prisoner of his own body and his soul is trapped on "the other side".

So technically Kindred is Harry Osborn but that's not the whole truth. He is something more, hybrid and therefore the amalgamation of a demon (pre-OMD Peter?) and Norman Osborn's son, which would explain his strong connection to Spider-Man and Green Goblin. His thoughts are mixed by those two presences.

I believe this theory could pay respect to works by other Spider-Man's creators. That Harry really "died" as a Peter Parker's friend, that he didn't went to Hell being classified as a bad person, that his "ressurection" by Goblin formula and Mysterio is valid, that his latest adventures (BND, relationship with Menace, American Son, becoming a father of a second son, still being a friend of Parker, working in Parker Industries and Alchemax) are his experiences, not a clone, a fake or other doppelganger.

I believe also that this theory could make a bigger revelation than Kindred is vengeful Harry Osborn. From TASM #30-31 most readers got convinced that Harry Osborn is Kindred and for them it was the obvious solution to his identity. So, yeah, they guessed right, but that's no whole story and twists and shocking revelations are still in waiting Not mentioning OMD connection and theory about a fragment of Peter's soul, which I, Spidey_62, Hugo Strange and Kingkalamari still believed in. I suppose

Could be... I just don't see it as simple as 'It was Harry all this time', without explaining all the BND stuff... like how he had another kid, for example. I mean, if he was a shambling corpse all this time, that'd be kinda tough to do (That, and I really hate the image in my head of Kindred and Menace doing the ba-donka-donk).

[Spidey5640]

Mixed feelings on this one. on one hand I'm relieved it's not Gwen or some mystical manifestation of pre-OMD Pete. On the other, it's...Harry. As a villain. Like before. And what's Harry's weird obsession with creepy family dinners? Had one in SSM#200 also. Poor Gwen, bad enough Pete put a rod through her dead body in Sins Past, now she's be completely desecrated.

Art was terrific. Still wondering if anything from the Gwen mini will somehow tie in here. Probably not since it's a different writer but with Harry, Gwen, Pete, Captain Stacey, Jean DeWolff all in it might be kind of cool.

[Dawidos]

Could be... I just don't see it as simple as 'It was Harry all this time', without explaining all the BND stuff... like how he had another kid, for example. I mean, if he was a shambling corpse all this time, that'd be kinda tough to do (That, and I really hate the image in my head of Kindred and Menace doing the ba-donka-donk).

Let's assume that till Amazing Spider-Man #800 Harry Osborn is still good Harry Osborn and Kindred lives in him as a parasite (not strong enough to control his body and emotions). With Nick Spencer's run good Harry Osborn disappeared and Kindred finally managed to take full control (like he said in TASM #31 he fashioned himself into this current form). The only problem with this theory is a scene from Web of Venom: Good Son (March 2020) where we see Harry Osborn with Liz, Normie Osborn and Dylan Brock. But maybe for powerful Kindred there is no problem now to temporary change his appearance and pretend to be Harry Osborn. I don't want to believe that from TASM #545 to TASM #800 we were dealing with fake Harry Osborn (copycat) or Harry Osborn who was a deep cover supervillain (full Kindred) feigning friendship to Peter Parker

[Lukmendes]

^ That's a big reason why I'm enjoying this run so much is that it feels like there are consequences again. In order for things like BND to happen, or Parker Industries going so big, or Superior to last as long as it did, it involved a lot of trying to fit square shapes into round slots.

That's a good way to put it, it's a Simpsons situation where they keep giving Homer different jobs for the sake of different adventures lol.

I wouldn't mind that Ben is still trying to adjust and find his way post CC and PAD's run but if he's A. still trying to justify he was somehow in the right with the whole New U nonsense or B. still acting like a complete douchebag like he was in PAD's run then Marvel is just going to be spinning their wheels with him yet again.

I get the feeling it'll be more like Peter David's version, where he's colossal douche who's at least trying to be good, him just being villanous would kinda suck, but who knows? Maybe Ben won't show up at all, only thing I really doubt is if Ben is around, I don't think it'll be like Spider-Geddon where he's back to normal that easily.

[HypnoHustler]

Mixed feelings on this one. on one hand I'm relieved it's not Gwen or some mystical manifestation of pre-OMD Pete. On the other, it's...Harry. As a villain. Like before. And what's Harry's weird obsession with creepy family dinners? Had one in SSM#200 also.

Small correction, but Spec #189 was Harry’s twisted family dinner. One of my all-time favorite issues... I think it’s even better than #200.