DC Future State

[J. D. Guy]

I don't know where the idea Future State is "filler" came from. No one who is actually involved with the project is allowed, legally, to say much of anything about it. "Filler." So, who is profiting from this "filler" idea? I don't know why people who call themselves fans of something are so eager to stand in line to hate something only a few people on Earth have even seen.


It could be something awesome, couldn't it?

Frankly speaking, I have grown to despise the term "filler" as it became more and more proliferated throughout fictional fandoms. It started in the Western/Anglo Anime-sphere to refer to episodes and stories that weren't direct adaptations to a manga. It then quickly morphed into a pejorative to refer to Anime content a person dislikes/feels it isn't worth viewing. (I have so many issues with this habit alone.) Then it morphed beyond the Anglo Anime-sphere to any fictional works and media to denote aspects and facets deemed "unimportant", "worthy of dismissal and disregard" and other negative veiled and not-so-veiled hatreds and prejudices.

The term "filler" has really messed up fictional analysis and discourse, because you can't talk about something without someone else chiming in "but it's filler; it doesn't matter/count", even though it did happen and therefore did matter and does count. "Canon vs Non-canon" is another analysis and discourse hindering terminology.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Glass in his TT run did give him strong ties to his Middle Eastern background before making him a Suicide Bomber.

Plenty of other Artists and titles do portray him as tanned/visually mixed. His solo and a lot of his lore also do highlight his mixed parentage so it's not like fans or anyone who knows the Batman lore isn't aware of his mixed heritage.

The fact that he is passing isn't an excuse. The LOA and the Al Ghul's are well known enough that visual medium or not he is still representation for mixed kids.

My kids are mixed African and Irish and yet they hold Damian close to their hearts. The fact that The Supersons and lil'Gotham [the only Damian titles they've read] doesn't portray him as mixed doesn't stop them clinging to the fact that Robin is a mixed kid just like them.

Also why is it that DC chooses one of it's few Middle Eastern characters to portray as a murderous lil' ****? never mind that he has already redeemed himself or the fact that there's so few high profile Middle Eastern character's. Of all the character's to pick for the evil heel turn they pick they go for the under represented demographic.

Is drawing Damian as visibly mixed considered giving a character strong ties? I don't remember reading anything about Damian's cultural heritage in China or North Africa. Aside from making a character look visibly mixed, making storyline based on their heritage also stops people from whitewashing them.

Like Priest did with Rose Wilson, he went so deep into her Hmong/Cambodian heritage that I can't imagine another writer completely ignoring that part of her character.

[Ascended]

With Damian it's kinda weird to try and connect him to his Middle Eastern heritage because it doesn't seem that Ra's or the League of Assassins follow those traditions. Sure, we see panels of Ra's deep in meditation with candles burning or whatever, and it sorta evokes a "Asian/Eastern/something not Western" aesthetic, but far as I know Ra's and his followers don't follow any specific "real" heritage or cultural traditions, and instead have their own culture that's maybe grown out of whatever region Ra's originally came from but long ago became its own unique thing.

I'm not saying Damian shouldn't have any interest or connections to his heritage at all, but this kid didn't grow up surrounded by those things, he grew up in the culture of the League of Assassins and that seems to be a very different thing from what we'd recognize as the culture of....wherever Ra's is originally from?

[skyvolt2000]

Glass in his TT run did give him strong ties to his Middle Eastern background before making him a Suicide Bomber.

Plenty of other Artists and titles do portray him as tanned/visually mixed. His solo and a lot of his lore also do highlight his mixed parentage so it's not like fans or anyone who knows the Batman lore isn't aware of his mixed heritage.

The fact that he is passing isn't an excuse. The LOA and the Al Ghul's are well known enough that visual medium or not he is still representation for mixed kids.

My kids are mixed African and Irish and yet they hold Damian close to their hearts. The fact that The Supersons and lil'Gotham [the only Damian titles they've read] doesn't portray him as mixed doesn't stop them clinging to the fact that Robin is a mixed kid just like them.

Also why is it that DC chooses one of it's few Middle Eastern characters to portray as a murderous lil' ****? never mind that he has already redeemed himself or the fact that there's so few high profile Middle Eastern character's. Of all the character's to pick for the evil heel turn they pick they go for the under represented demographic.

If folks don't read those books or worship Batman lore-they are not going to know.

How many times did he appear in Tom King's run?


Look at Martin Sheen and his family. Nobody knows his Dad is from Spain or his real last name is Estevez.

Look at George Prescott Bush-(yes GW's nephew) he's half Hispanic.

Most folks are not going to know.

We have seen DC CRAP on high profile POC-remember John Stewart was suppose to be dead now, if that writer hadn't quit. Dc still crapped on him, Cyborg, Vixen, Jaime Reyes, Jessica, Simon and so on. Damian is not immune because of who his Daddy is. He got it WORST for being Batman's kid.
Look at what they have done to Wally.

They don't care about making folks mad.

What is going to happen you stop buying? They will just flood the market again with more Daman free Batman books.

[OopsIdiditagain]

With Damian it's kinda weird to try and connect him to his Middle Eastern heritage because it doesn't seem that Ra's or the League of Assassins follow those traditions. Sure, we see panels of Ra's deep in meditation with candles burning or whatever, and it sorta evokes a "Asian/Eastern/something not Western" aesthetic, but far as I know Ra's and his followers don't follow any specific "real" heritage or cultural traditions, and instead have their own culture that's maybe grown out of whatever region Ra's originally came from but long ago became its own unique thing.

I'm not saying Damian shouldn't have any interest or connections to his heritage at all, but this kid didn't grow up surrounded by those things, he grew up in the culture of the League of Assassins and that seems to be a very different thing from what we'd recognize as the culture of....wherever Ra's is originally from?

Ra's is supposed to be a Chinese nomad who moved to North Africa and started the League.

And yeah, you're absolutely right. Ra's culture has always been shallow Orientalism. Which has a lot of issues, starting with the fact people can't even pin down Ra's culture.

It also makes it easier for writers to whitewash Damian because there's barely any real culture to washout in the first place.

[HandofPrometheus]

I don't know where the idea Future State is "filler" came from. No one who is actually involved with the project is allowed, legally, to say much of anything about it. "Filler." So, who is profiting from this "filler" idea? I don't know why people who call themselves fans of something are so eager to stand in line to hate something only a few people on Earth have even seen.


It could be something awesome, couldn't it?

I'm definitely pumped for it. I guess people are quick to call it filler because they don't care for it.

[lemonpeace]

I'm definitely pumped for it. I guess people are quick to call it filler because they don't care for it.

or, possibly, people are quick to call it filler to undermine the idea. Comic fans love to pretend some **** didn't happen. it probably makes it easier to dismiss if they can label it "filler" before and without having to read it. ironically, those same type of fans love actually filler; circular familiar storytelling that exists to exists and doesn't push any narrative forward.

[Redjack]

I'm definitely pumped for it. I guess people are quick to call it filler because they don't care for it.

All I can say is, if what DC let me do is any example, the people out there pretending they know what's coming have literally zero idea what they're talking about.

I miss when fans lived in hope of something good coming BECAUSE they didn't know.

I'm still like that.

[Frontier]

I guess it's not necessarily filler in that at least some elements of the Future State setting's will end up in play in the present-day DCU, and if character concepts end up being popular they might show up in the present day, but the actual hard, concrete, future shown in Future State as well as the replacement characters are likely not to happen as presented in my opinion. Like if Yara shows up in the present-day DCU, she won't be replacing Diana as Wonder Woman and Jon Kent's not going to be Superman. Luke Fox might still be Batwing (or whatever they do with Tim Fox if he's 5G Batman).

And, I mean, crazy murderer Wally West guys...that's kind of something you'd like to prevent from ever happening, right?

[Vordan]

Ra's is supposed to be a Chinese nomad who moved to North Africa and started the League.

And yeah, you're absolutely right. Ra's culture has always been shallow Orientalism. Which has a lot of issues, starting with the fact people can't even pin down Ra's culture.

It also makes it easier for writers to whitewash Damian because there's barely any real culture to washout in the first place.

Ra’s does not look Chinese at all. He looks “Persian” I’d say, a white Middle Eastern. That’s what he looks like in the modern era.

I guess it's not necessarily filler in that at least some elements of the Future State setting's will end up in play in the present-day DCU, and if character concepts end up being popular they might show up in the present day, but the actual hard, concrete, future shown in Future State as well as the replacement characters are likely not to happen as presented in my opinion. Like if Yara shows up in the present-day DCU, she won't be replacing Diana as Wonder Woman and Jon Kent's not going to be Superman. Luke Fox might still be Batwing (or whatever they do with Tim Fox if he's 5G Batman).

And, I mean, crazy murderer Wally West guys...that's kind of something you'd like to prevent from ever happening, right?

It’s not locking the DCU into a set course is what people mean when they say “it’s filler”. Some of the ideas will find their way back to the mainline like how Convergence worked out. But the main plotline of Convergence was filler. No one cares about Telos or Brainiac Prime or what went down with the Multiverse. It didn’t affect the direction of the DCU at all. The most important thing to come out of that event was the Pre-FP Lois & Clark and their son Jon. Something like that I could absolutely see having an impact, and we know some stuff like the Magistrate will be a factor in the 2021 storylines.

But DC has repeatedly stressed that this is a possible future and it’s obvious to us that means some of this stuff will swept under the rug and forgotten.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Ra’s does not look Chinese at all. He looks “Persian” I’d say, a white Middle Eastern. That’s what he looks like in the modern era.

I would agree if DC didn't associate him with North Africa rather than the Middle East. I doubt he's Persian but he is Arab, he's probably from [insert generic North African nomadic tribe]

[Korath]

Glass in his TT run did give him strong ties to his Middle Eastern background before making him a Suicide Bomber.

Plenty of other Artists and titles do portray him as tanned/visually mixed. His solo and a lot of his lore also do highlight his mixed parentage so it's not like fans or anyone who knows the Batman lore isn't aware of his mixed heritage.

The fact that he is passing isn't an excuse. The LOA and the Al Ghul's are well known enough that visual medium or not he is still representation for mixed kids.

My kids are mixed African and Irish and yet they hold Damian close to their hearts. The fact that The Supersons and lil'Gotham [the only Damian titles they've read] doesn't portray him as mixed doesn't stop them clinging to the fact that Robin is a mixed kid just like them.

Also why is it that DC chooses one of it's few Middle Eastern characters to portray as a murderous lil' ****? never mind that he has already redeemed himself or the fact that there's so few high profile Middle Eastern character's. Of all the character's to pick for the evil heel turn they pick they go for the under represented demographic.

Perhaps because his Middle Eastern background is unimportant to his character...

I know americans ascribe some sort of moral/cultural heritage based on genetics, but I still find the utter nonsense that Damian wearing a suicide bomber item once has created to be absolutely ludicrous...

[Digifiend]

I guess it's not necessarily filler in that at least some elements of the Future State setting's will end up in play in the present-day DCU, and if character concepts end up being popular they might show up in the present day, but the actual hard, concrete, future shown in Future State as well as the replacement characters are likely not to happen as presented in my opinion. Like if Yara shows up in the present-day DCU, she won't be replacing Diana as Wonder Woman and Jon Kent's not going to be Superman. Luke Fox might still be Batwing (or whatever they do with Tim Fox if he's 5G Batman).

And, I mean, crazy murderer Wally West guys...that's kind of something you'd like to prevent from ever happening, right?

Yeah, if Yara appeared in the present day, she'd be more likely to be Wonder Girl IV.

[Badou]

When Damian was introduced wasn't he intentionally meant to look like a mini Bruce? Like Morrison wanted it to be clear he was almost like a visual clone of a young Bruce. So I don't think it really factored into their creation of him to make him look more Eastern or anything. Since they wanted his introduction to be more uncomfortable, but maybe I'm remembering it wrong. Been a long time since I read those early stories.

Yeah, I think there is a very good chance that Yara becomes the new Wonder Girl. The reception to her has been the most positive I think out of all the new characters, and it feels like she has a clear path given Damian's generation doesn't have a Wonder Girl character in it. It is funny how new female costumes can carry so much weight with the public. You don't see that with male characters much anymore where a big costume change can drive sales or even make a character relevant. Though in the last handful of years we've gotten Burnside Batgirl, Spider-Gwen, Gwenpool, Harley's new costumes, maybe Ms Marvel a bit, and even throw in Jessica Cruz in there maybe that fans latch onto.

[Fergus]

Perhaps because his Middle Eastern background is unimportant to his character...

I know americans ascribe some sort of moral/cultural heritage based on genetics, but I still find the utter nonsense that Damian wearing a suicide bomber item once has created to be absolutely ludicrous...

That suicide bomber scene is very serious to me because the writer just a few issues before went above and beyond to give us an issue where Damian fully embraces his middle Eastern heritage even going as far as to say that he has never felt at home in Gotham. The only place in Gotham that feels close to home being the Middle Eastern Inn where he's speaking Arabic and eating Blood soup