Superman Future State

[Agent Z]

Yikes, that gives me the ugly implication that poor Bryce might have been Cosby'd by Terry Al Ghul.

What do you mean?

[Agent Z]

Figured this should be included here as well as the Jon thread:


https://screenrant.com/teen-justice-...e-earth-11-dc/

The FS Flash is from Earth 11 and one of her teammates she fought alongside of her world was the E11 version of Jon. I’m honestly tickled trying to picture Bryce and Clara(?) pregnant.

Is this Teen Justice concept repurposing some elements from DiDio's 5Gs idea? I remember seeing the 5Gs Wonder character and some were speculating if they were either non-binary or transgender.

[Vordan]

Is this Teen Justice concept repurposing some elements from DiDio's 5Gs idea? I remember seeing the 5Gs Wonder character and some were speculating if they were either non-binary or transgender.

All of Future State is basically repurposing 5G, so yeah some of the original concepts may be seeing some use here.

[Vordan]

Hearing some positive stuff about PKJ’s Dark Multiverse Batman one shot, which is nice to hear. I read one issue of The Last God and enjoyed it but haven’t kept up with that series, but I wasn’t a fan of his Cap Empyre tie-in. I thought that was boring, although I also thought Empyre as a whole was boring, none of that event impressed me even though I think Ewing is great. Heard hoping PKJ’s Superman stuff also gets a good reception.

Going to read the recent Lucifer series to get a feel for Watters, and I need to decide on what to read for Lewis, anyone read anything of his?

[manwhohaseverything]

Gladiators for truth and justice.I am glad that this one gets to see the sons of dawn.For an optimistic guy, his greatest stories sure end in tragedy.

[Vordan]

Read the PKJ Dark Multiverse Batman: Hush one shot. Was pretty good! Really looking forward to what he does with Superman in FS now. The amount of world building he stuffed into that one shot was great, I would honestly love to see more stories set on that works.

[Fergus]

That's not how this works, bullies use violence a certain way to intimidate people and oppress those weaker than then themselves. That's what Luthor lives for, ruining a vulnerable person who can;t fight back s what he loves. That's abusing power. Everything else I said was true. What are your feelings on Damien's solution to the Spook?



Had he been anybody else to Batman he'd be getting a life sentence in Belle Reve. Did you read Batman and Son?

That's opinion, not fact. Entertaining is not only about being edgy. These characters are supposed to be role models and fulfill specific niches. What does making Jon Damien 2.0 accomplish? Instead of copying his father he'd just be copying Damien. You can get adventure and action without making super-heroes bullies.

He fought crime and Crime lost.

pretty sure some heroes kill.
Pretty sure Batman works with heroes who have killed. Is WW a bully?
Pretty sure lots of Batfamily have killed . From Dick Grayson to Alfred to Cass to Jason to Kate. Batman never put em in Jail
Pretty sure Bruce gave Jay the kill go ahead just keep it out of Gotham.

I don't want Jon killing nor do I want him edgy/brutal but I do want his methods/version of the Man of Steel to be recognisably different from his father's [eg Kon's different from Clark]

Incidentally I enjoyed Snyder's take in MOS

[Fergus]

The Superverse Future State books sounds a lot more interesting than the Bat ones and I like the look of the Earth 11 characters.

I wonder if they'll be suitable for 14yr olds because I think these character's will definitely interest my daughter.
The character designs are appealing.

[Vordan]

He fought crime and Crime lost.

pretty sure some heroes kill.
Pretty sure Batman works with heroes who have killed. Is WW a bully?
Pretty sure lots of Batfamily have killed . From Dick Grayson to Alfred to Cass to Jason to Kate. Batman never put em in Jail
Pretty sure Bruce gave Jay the kill go ahead just keep it out of Gotham.

I don't want Jon killing nor do I want him edgy/brutal but I do want his methods/version of the Man of Steel to be recognisably different from his father's [eg Kon's different from Clark]

Incidentally I enjoyed Snyder's take in MOS

I personally think that’s idiotic and is emblematic of why the desire to have Jason be a member of the Batfamily is misguided. Having a Batfamily member who runs around killing flies in the face of how Batman operates and makes him too much of a hypocrite for me. Plus Jason is never going to actually get to kill the important Rogues, so he still comes off as impotent. Like how he shot Penguin in the head yet Penguin still didn’t die.

As for Jon killing... as a dystopian tale like Batman 666 I could definitely support that. I would like a Jon story where he becomes Superman but ends up disillusioned with his father and goes down a different route, since I think there’s some legit critiques to make about the way Clark runs things. But “main” Jon becoming Superman and killing feels a step too far for me. I wouldn’t mind him making more aggressive use of the PZ, perhaps going down the same path Jor-El and Krypton did where he just starts dumping people there and abandoning them when he judges them irredeemable. I was a huge fan of Jurgens having Clark realize how messed up the PZ is and resolving to not use it the way his father did (see I can say nice things about Jurgens!). Jon deciding the opposite would make for an interesting breakaway imo.

The Superverse Future State books sounds a lot more interesting than the Bat ones and I like the look of the Earth 11 characters.

I wonder if they'll be suitable for 14yr olds because I think these character's will definitely interest my daughter.
The character designs are appealing.

I think the Jon books will be fine, not sure about the PKJ Superman Worlds of War one though. Depends on how you feel about the mainline books.

[manwhohaseverything]

No kill code is basically a left over from the comics code. I don't particularly care if a character kills or not.It's another dc cliché nonsense of "if i kill joker, i become hitler in the future" . What i do care about is whether it's consistent with characterisation . If bruce doesn't kill because he's too afraid to go mad. All the power to him. but batman, redhood.. Etc every last one of them are already criminals. Jason doesn't need bruce's anything to do what he deems is right. He is a criminal and the character owns it. That doesn't mean, he needs to absolutely don't have redeeming qualities like helping the orphans, the handicapped, the women, the children... Etc. The narrative doesn't need to endorse vigilantism, vigilante justice or murder like that.All it needs is to get people to sympathise with jason if the attempt is to show the tragedy of the character or heroic side. Personally, I don't view bruce as a more moral being than jason for killing or not killing and vice versa. The context matters for me.

Moreover, the idea that jon has a kill code while his father himself doesn't is nonsensical. Its better left ambiguise like in many old superman stories. I don't want jon kent character to be stuck with some dogmatic belief system to preserve some sort of percieved sainthood (vigilante justice narrative and sainthood? How the hell does that even make sense? ).If stories with the character is specifically for younger audiences like in supersons or superman smashes the klan, then sure. Jon kent should be written accordingly. Other than that, i don't want all hell to break lose just because jon gets stuck with a trolley problem and makes a choice people might disagree with. The end.Jon being stuck with such rigid structures for building narrative and fandom would be detrimental to the character in my view. The character would lose flexibility . I want room for something like this in narrative. Plain and simple.

[Vordan]

No kill rule serves other purposes though, such as why Batman and Superman don’t just murder their entire Rogues Gallery. Letting them kill just means even more asspulls for why Joker and Lex don’t get put down, because if they did get killed they’d be back in a year’s time.

The thing to understand is if Batman and Superman killed their Rogues, all that would change is instead of Arkham and Stryker’s having revolving doors, Hell itself would get a revolving door. Death would become even more meaningless than it already is.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Just realized, pertaining to Morrison consulting on the Superman stuff: remember this guy from All-Star Superman #6?



They confirmed in the backmatter of the trade that that was the Superman 2/Superman Secundus test-tube baby implied at the end of the final issue all grown up, with a costume modeled in part after Captain Marvel and Miracleman, folding those successors to the Superman archetype back into the source material. And I just realized that's literally the costume they gave Jon for Future State, just with the regular S and the thick yellow sash swapped out for a thick yellow belt.

[Stanlos]

I wonder what the comics audience really thinks about the whole killing thing. I mean, had they really thought about what it is and what it would mean if people were running around killing folks cause they er so bayud ayusss. Is that a thing they really think is good.

[Vordan]

Just realized, pertaining to Morrison consulting on the Superman stuff: remember this guy from All-Star Superman #6?



They confirmed in the backmatter of the trade that that was the Superman 2/Superman Secundus test-tube baby implied at the end of the final issue all grown up, with a costume modeled in part after Captain Marvel and Miracleman, folding those successors to the Superman archetype back into the source material. And I just realized that's literally the costume they gave Jon for Future State, just with the regular S and the thick yellow sash swapped out for a thick yellow belt.

There’s some bitter irony that it takes Morrison leaving comics (for the Big 2 at least) right around the time both DC and Marvel start finally using their ideas. Ah well, genius is never recognized in its time right? Very excited for what this could mean going forward for the Superman books even with Bendis leaving. Hopefully it means the big ideas won’t be abandoned so Clark & co. can shuffle on back to the farm. Would be really nice if Solaris showing up in Future State is just the precursor (epilogue?) to a planned appearance in the “main” books back when things go back to “normal” in March and we shift back to present day. Hey if the Magistrate can show up in the Batbooks I see no reason Solaris can’t show up in the Superbooks!

[manwhohaseverything]

Just realized, pertaining to Morrison consulting on the Superman stuff: remember this guy from All-Star Superman #6?



They confirmed in the backmatter of the trade that that was the Superman 2

Man! That's crazy.That costume has yellow armbands though. Overall, if morrison is consulting on this it would be great. I mean, jon and clark were tragic in the greenlantern issues blackstars.