Zuko vs Palpatine

[Carabas]

Do we have to point to the Mustafar duel to explain that radiant heat doesn't seem to work particularly well against Force sensitives, unless they are down three limbs?

Radiant heat doesn't even exist in most fictional universes.

[Totoro Man]

to be fair, Cody, you argued against the most ridiculous speeds attributed to blaster bolts as well. I do appreciate that you've brought good arguments to the table.

after watching some clips it was very difficult for me to distinguish the difference in speed between the animated arrows and blaster bolts used in both franchises. they looked very similar. the only time there appeared to be an appreciable difference between the ATLA arrows and blaster bolts was specifically with the B1 and B2 battle droids. in this case their blasts seemed to move slightly faster. with all other blaster bolts they appeared to move at roughly the same speed.

regards to Vader blocking Han's blaster bolts. I always thought Vader used his armored guantlets to neutralize the attack. it never crossed my mind that he was using force TK to stop the blaster bolts. sparks are seen flying off his armor, so it seemed pretty clear that the blaster bolts made contact. I'd be willing to concede it was TK if there were a valid argument to support it. Vader definitely uses TK to disarm Solo-- but I always figured that was the limit of the Force TK being used in that scene. why do you believe he was using the Force to block blaster bolts?

I haven't done any calcuations-- but Zuko's fire blasts are definitely slower than blaster bolts, now that I've looked at some clips. they cover a much larger area-- so light saber blocking would probably fail. if TK is viable against flames than that would be a solid defense. although dodging first seems easier... then use a TK counter.

I guess my biggest gripe is that it's just taken as a given that any padawan or jedi mook would block everything and win on general principle because of TK. Ki Addi Mundi got killed by a barrage that was merely one shot per second for seven seconds. this was even after he allowed the troopers to clearly line up in a entrenched firing position and point their guns at him. he stood there for a full second and didn't even react until they fired a shot. he gets wounded and disarmed with the third or fourth shot and the rest were used to finish him off. (I guess that was the Dark Side clouding everything... or something). they were all right there in front of him. Zuko's best rate of fire was 30-40 blasts in 10 seconds. that's roughly 3-to-4 faster than a barrage that was confirmed as killing a jedi master. the travel speed would naturally be slower for the attack. but the density of fire is still nothing to take lightly. if a jedi can get killed by a barrage that's three times slower and 3 seconds shorter than what Zuko dished out it just seems like he at least stood something like a chance.

since the general consensus is Zuko would lose to Palpatine I'll just admit that I made an ill informed curbstomp. I'm still a bit puzzled that any padawan should be able to defeat him with TK-- but if that's the way the arguments are piling up I'll just accept it. when I posted this I was absolutely convinced that it would be a solid rumble. I thought about what both sides had to offer, and what I remembered about their feats. it was never intended to be a curbstomp (even though I made more than my fair share of arguments that Zuko had a chance) it made it to six pages-- so I guess it's not so bad. I've done my bit (for better or worse). so I'll just have to bow out and say if other folks want to keep it going then have fun.

[Cody]

regards to Vader blocking Han's blaster bolts. I always thought Vader used his armored guantlets to neutralize the attack. it never crossed my mind that he was using force TK to stop the blaster bolts. sparks are seen flying off his armor, so it seemed pretty clear that the blaster bolts made contact. I'd be willing to concede it was TK if there were a valid argument to support it. Vader definitely uses TK to disarm Solo-- but I always figured that was the limit of the Force TK being used in that scene. why do you believe he was using the Force to block blaster bolts?

They were only leather gloves in the movies. He had cybernetic limbs but that's it. And we all know energy can go through them just fine. Hell Luke got a hole in his cybernetic hand from a stray blaster bolt in ep 6 during the fight at Jabba's palace.

I guess my biggest gripe is that it's just taken as a given that any padawan or jedi mook would block everything and win on general principle because of TK.

That is just how tk is. It can be pretty damn op in many franchises.

Ki Addi Mundi got killed by a barrage that was merely one shot per second for seven seconds. this was even after he allowed the troopers to clearly line up in a entrenched firing position and point their guns at him. he stood there for a full second and didn't even react until they fired a shot. he gets wounded and disarmed with the third or fourth shot and the rest were used to finish him off. (I guess that was the Dark Side clouding everything... or something). they were all right there in front of him. Zuko's best rate of fire was 30-40 blasts in 10 seconds. that's roughly 3-to-4 faster than a barrage that was confirmed as killing a jedi master. the travel speed would naturally be slower for the attack. but the density of fire is still nothing to take lightly. if a jedi can get killed by a barrage that's three times slower and 3 seconds shorter than what Zuko dished out it just seems like he at least stood something like a chance.[/quote]

They are all coming at him. Each blaster bolt moving faster than a fireball from Zuko. All of which are being fired at a very rapid pace by multiple cloners. It's not an easy thing to block against unless you're like one of the higher tier characters.

[Slade1]

since the general consensus is Zuko would lose to Palpatine I'll just admit that I made an ill informed curbstomp. I'm still a bit puzzled that any padawan should be able to defeat him with TK-- but if that's the way the arguments are piling up I'll just accept it. when I posted this I was absolutely convinced that it would be a solid rumble. I thought about what both sides had to offer, and what I remembered about their feats. it was never intended to be a curbstomp (even though I made more than my fair share of arguments that Zuko had a chance) it made it to six pages-- so I guess it's not so bad. I've done my bit (for better or worse). so I'll just have to bow out and say if other folks want to keep it going then have fun.

It's not a curbstomp by any means. Palpy would take the majority but not 10/10.