Future State Batman books

[Light of Justice]

Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at with it. love of have it but at least every Robin to come after him brought a unique angle to the role. Damian took the robin title and spun the dynamic by adding a more literak and direct family angle, adding weight to the ideas of legacy and inheritance, while Duke and We are Robin was at the very least a wild swing that took a somewhat philosophical approach to what Robin could mean to Gotham. Tim just doesn't bring anything to the table that makes me go "hmm, that's a cool take on Robin".

Didn't Tim the creator of "Batman needs Robin to be his light"? For me it's a bit harmful for Batman's character to say that his sanity depends on a minor child, but I admit it's somewhat heartwarming take of Robin role, and I see many people, especially Tim fans, thought that it's a cool take on Robin role.

He also the first to have solo series and establish Robin as hero who can work alone, so maybe he's not as interesting as the other, but to say that he doesn't bring anything to Robin pantheon is incorrect.

[Tzigone]

I think having a biological son diminished the others - and while I like him (more now that he's mellowed), I would not have done it. If you don't think it diminished the others, just look what happened when a reboot came along - he became Bruce only child.

but introducing him as Robin and Bruce's biological son raised a lot of interesting ideas about family, inheritance, and the pressure of legacy just by juxtaposing him to the Robin's that came before him that Bruce had made into his family when he felt he had none left

We'll have to disagree. There's nothing about Wayne blood that made Damian more relevant to Bat legacy and inheritance to me. His mother's inheritance (and rejecting it) sure, but not the dad's side. And he's hardly the first child-of-a-villain hero. And Bruce feeling he had no family left at that time and all that jazz and Damian being good for that...even if it was the case, it's really creepy and reflects poorly on Bruce and his general emotional state.

Didn't Tim the creator of "Batman needs Robin to be his light"? For me it's a bit harmful for Batman's character to say that his sanity depends on a minor child, but I admit it's somewhat heartwarming take of Robin role, and I see many people, especially Tim fans, thought that it's a cool take on Robin role.

I don't know if he did. He certainly said Batman needs a Robin. Tim fans love it, but it's just so creepy to me. Especially since it was not long after Dick called bullshit when Bruce spouted the same line. And it's not even about Robin as a "light" - it's about a child partner that he can order around as it was explicitly shown he couldn't work with Nightwing because Dick was unwilling to take that subordinate role. To me, looking at it from the future, it's become indicative of post-COIE's Batman's inability to work well with peers or equals or extend the same respect he demands. And, of course we come back to it being contrived because Bruce only got violent again when they needed a reason to introduce Tim (rather than being consistently that way after Jason's death), so it felt like "creating a purpose" for Tim instead of him filling a role that was need. And that's fine for characters, to a degree. Unfortunately, because of the way the character went later, it ended up being Tim only papering over the cracks, because by the late '90s/early 2000s, Bruce's personality is a nightmare. Not that they had any of that planned when Tim was brought on.

[Light of Justice]

But it literally it is. Damian being Bruce's biological son is the one thing that let him made his mark within the Bat Mythos these fast, plus it offers a far wider array of narrative possibilities that were not possible to explore with the previous Robins.

Anyways, Williamson shared a letterless page of Future State: Red Hood



https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...37461223419904

Milonogianis does a beautiful art but Jason's costume sucks big time. Why is so hard to go back to the Rebirth costume?

What's the name of his weapon? When I saw his design with that weapon, I thought it's some kind of advanced crowbar, but I don't know the purpose of the chain.

[Sergard]

What's the name of his weapon? When I saw his design with that weapon, I thought it's some kind of advanced crowbar, but I don't know the purpose of the chain.

Looks like a kusarigama.

[Godlike13]

What Tim did for Robin, he did it 20 years ago. It’s past now. Trying to do it again is just rehashing the past. He’s not saying anything new as a character at this point, and evolving is clearly not one of his character strengths. It’s not about what did for Robin, it’s about what he currently does for Robin. Which is what?

[Konja7]

Didn't Tim the creator of "Batman needs Robin to be his light"? For me it's a bit harmful for Batman's character to say that his sanity depends on a minor child, but I admit it's somewhat heartwarming take of Robin role, and I see many people, especially Tim fans, thought that it's a cool take on Robin role.

He also the first to have solo series and establish Robin as hero who can work alone, so maybe he's not as interesting as the other, but to say that he doesn't bring anything to Robin pantheon is incorrect.

Although Tim was the first Robin to have a solo series, he wasn't the the first Robin to work alone.

Dick as Robin works alone for years (and not only with NTT).

The idea that Dick needs to become Nightwing to work alone is retroactive.

[9th.]

What Tim did for Robin, he did it 20 years ago. It’s past now. Trying to do it again is just rehashing the past. He’s not saying anything new as a character at this point, and evolving is clearly not one of his character strengths. It’s not about what did for Robin, it’s about what he currently does for Robin. Which is what?

This is where i'm at with the whole situation, I don't see the point of him going back. He could establish himself as an older Robin but he'd just get replaced again when DC decides to bring in a new younger (possibly female) Robin. I know he was created to be Robin but he doesn't have to be that, Red Robin gave us a glipse of something better (other than the name).

[Tzigone]

The idea that Dick needs to become Nightwing to work alone is retroactive.

Absolutely true. Dick worked alone as Robin. Some in highschool. And more in college. He was a Robin who could work alone. I will absolutely grant he didn't have his own solo series, though. Tim, I've heard it said, made the Batfranchises really popular. Part of it is timing, of course, but he was a good character in the '90s, too. I read his series up to issue #113. But timing definitely plays in. He shows up in 1989 when the Titans have fallen and (I think) the Bat-juggernaut is in full force (that beginning 1983-1987 range, I think, with a lot of Miller responsible, which is sad for me because his phenomenally popular take isn't to my taste). Then they tested the water with a couple minis. They sold, so his title happened. It sold so we got Dick and Barbara back in the Bat-sphere, and then Cass is created specifically to be spun off (which to be fair seem to have been the plan with original Supergirl and Kid Flash too). And more and more have been brought in since.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Tim being a grown up Robin wouldn’t of been a big deal had he not spent the last decade or so trying to move past it.

DC thinks they're pleasing the fans who complained about "Damian replacing Tim" with this. Nevermind the character should be way past this by now.

[Pohzee]

I'd think most of the fans would be past this too. It's really headscratching to be honest

[josai21]

The best solution is to get Niceiza or Yost back to pick Tim off from where the Red Robin series left off.

Niceiza and Yost were taking Tim an interesting direction. Juxtaposing his loss and methods with Bruce...despite being so similiar. There was a lot of potential there.

Everything since then has been aimless...but this is the core issue of all Batfamily stories. Because Bruce is not allowed to grow and retire, the rest of the family is stuck in a limbo.

Here's hoping Gotham Knights gives us some of that progression the comics never will.

[Frontier]

I think having a biological son diminished the others - and while I like him (more now that he's mellowed), I would not have done it. If you don't think it diminished the others, just look what happened when a reboot came along - he became Bruce only child.

Do you mean because Tim and Cass' adaptions were written out? Because the other Robins were still around during the New 52.

I don't know if he did. He certainly said Batman needs a Robin. Tim fans love it, but it's just so creepy to me. Especially since it was not long after Dick called bullshit when Bruce spouted the same line. And it's not even about Robin as a "light" - it's about a child partner that he can order around as it was explicitly shown he couldn't work with Nightwing because Dick was unwilling to take that subordinate role. To me, looking at it from the future, it's become indicative of post-COIE's Batman's inability to work well with peers or equals or extend the same respect he demands. And, of course we come back to it being contrived because Bruce only got violent again when they needed a reason to introduce Tim (rather than being consistently that way after Jason's death), so it felt like "creating a purpose" for Tim instead of him filling a role that was need. And that's fine for characters, to a degree. Unfortunately, because of the way the character went later, it ended up being Tim only papering over the cracks, because by the late '90s/early 2000s, Bruce's personality is a nightmare. Not that they had any of that planned when Tim was brought on.

I think Robin has more to offer in the dynamic than just being a young partner who takes orders. I mean, I guess that goes into a sidekick's autonomy but I just see a lot of value in Batman having a partner who can offer a different perspective on Gotham and isn't some grizzled veteran. There were a variety of reasons why I couldn't be Dick anymore.

To be fair, Bruce seemed like he had settled in after Knightsend and he and Tim were working well but then they had to face multiple catastrophic events in Gotham and that really kind of set Bruce back a bit after he'd recovered from what happened to Jason and Barbara.

What Tim did for Robin, he did it 20 years ago. It’s past now. Trying to do it again is just rehashing the past. He’s not saying anything new as a character at this point, and evolving is clearly not one of his character strengths. It’s not about what did for Robin, it’s about what he currently does for Robin. Which is what?

Well, I'd prefer to read the one-shot to see what he's doing and contributing to the effort against the magistrate before I write him off for just going by Robin again.

Here's hoping Gotham Knights gives us some of that progression the comics never will.

Granted, he is Robin in that game...

[Jackalope89]

Well, there's no Damian in Arkham Knights. Yet, at least. DLC may change that.

[Vordan]

Funnily enough, the millennials like Tynion who grew up with Tim as “their” Robin are now entering leadership positions which is why you’re seeing Tim start to get more play. Tim was the Robin of the Arkham games and he’s the Robin of the Gotham Knights game. He’s getting a push. The problem is that inevitably DC will want Damian back in the role, or they’ll create a new Robin and Tim will get pushed out again. One of effects of Future State that I’m hoping for is that Tynion will give Tim a new code name in the present once he learns about the future that’s coming if he stays as Robin. Give him a good name that’s not “Red Robin” (not enough of a clean break) or “Drake” (stupid) and I think Tim could flourish.

[Bat-Meal]

So Duke and Kate are so far unaccounted for, with Damian rumored to be Red X, anyone else missing?