Future State Batman books

[Digifiend]

It would be better to do that in Detective Comics. Batman should be mostly about the Dark Knight himself.

[marvelprince]

Hmm, I like the full cowl look for Batman generally but for the first time it’s a person of color would’ve liked to see some of his face. And I love how Bruce has a book to silence the people who will complain he’s been sidelined. Event still looks fun, shorter than I was expecting but I’ll give most of these a go. Has there been any mention why there are two diff Batman costumes?

[lemonpeace]

Hmm, I like the full cowl look for Batman generally but for the first time it’s a person of color would’ve liked to see some of his face. And I love how Bruce has a book to silence the people who will complain he’s been sidelined. Event still looks fun, shorter than I was expecting but I’ll give most of these a go. Has there been any mention why there are two diff Batman costumes?

not yet, but we do know there is a timeskip between some or all of solo titles and the Justice League, so it's possibly a different character (like Aquaman to Aquawoman), a specialized suit, or just a suit to show time has passed.

[Frontier]

To those saying Tim moved on from Robin...well, I mean, he was kind of forced out of the role because Dick thought Damian needed to be Robin and then Tim focused on finding Bruce again and wanting to be his partner again when he came back.

And then there was the New 52 which was just a mess.

So it feels disingenuous to say he had a natural progression from moving on from Robin like Dick had.

Not that I need to see Tim as Robin again per se, or having his own (non-Drake) identity, but he never really got to move past being Robin.

[CPSparkles]

To those saying Tim moved on from Robin...well, I mean, he was kind of forced out of the role because Dick thought Damian needed to be Robin and then Tim focused on finding Bruce again and wanting to be his partner again when he came back.

And then there was the New 52 which was just a mess.

So it feels disingenuous to say he had a natural progression from moving on from Robin like Dick had.

Not that I need to see Tim as Robin again per se, or having his own (non-Drake) identity, but he never really got to move past being Robin.

And now Damian has been forced out for Tim so what goes around. Just wish they'd just fired him rather than demonise him to facilitate the change.

On the flip at least they didn't kill him off like they did with Jason to make the change so sliver lining I suppose.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

To those saying Tim moved on from Robin...well, I mean, he was kind of forced out of the role because Dick thought Damian needed to be Robin and then Tim focused on finding Bruce again and wanting to be his partner again when he came back.

And then there was the New 52 which was just a mess.

So it feels disingenuous to say he had a natural progression from moving on from Robin like Dick had.

Not that I need to see Tim as Robin again per se, or having his own (non-Drake) identity, but he never really got to move past being Robin.

I disagree.

Robin moving to the Red Robin identity while handled somewhat poorly Pre-FP it was still a progression for his character that felt natural and then the N52 further cemented it. In fact, for all the complaints people had for N52 TT, it managed to give Tim his own corner of the DCU, letting him spread his wings and be more than "another" Robin. So is not surprising that when Rebirth returned him to Bruce's side while also putting him into his old Robin costume, Tim kind of became superfluous to the bat family since he didn't offer anything that other characters (some of which editorial/writers were more interested in pushing) could already do, leading to him getting stuck into editorial limbo until Bendis requested him for YJ. Now, I've never read YJ but since Tim is back to being Robin, is pretty evident that whatever Bendis tried to do with Drake simply didn't work, and is entirely possible that editorial has just given up and decide to let Tim as Robin, damming him to be an afterthought when none of the other Robins -that arguably play better the family dynamics- aren't available for some reason.

[Konja7]

I disagree.

Robin moving to the Red Robin identity while handled somewhat poorly Pre-FP it was still a progression for his character that felt natural and then the N52 further cemented it. In fact, for all the complaints people had for N52 TT, it managed to give Tim his own corner of the DCU, letting him spread his wings and be more than "another" Robin. So is not surprising that when Rebirth returned him to Bruce's side while also putting him into his old Robin costume, Tim kind of became superfluous to the bat family since he didn't offer anything that other characters (some of which editorial/writers were more interested in pushing) could already do, leading to him getting stuck into editorial limbo until Bendis requested him for YJ. Now, I've never read YJ but since Tim is back to being Robin, is pretty evident that whatever Bendis tried to do with Drake simply didn't work, and is entirely possible that editorial has just given up and decide to let Tim as Robin, damming him to be an afterthought when none of the other Robins -that arguably play better the family dynamics- aren't available for some reason.

New52 Teen Titans was pretty unpopular (and the events are already retconned), so I don't think it helps Tim at all.

The situation with YJ is confusing, because Tim was using the Robin suit, but he said he was still Red Robin in YJ #8. After that, he becomes Drake and changed his suit.

Now, Tim is using the Robin suit again, but we aren't sure about his alias.

[Frontier]

I disagree.

Robin moving to the Red Robin identity while handled somewhat poorly Pre-FP it was still a progression for his character that felt natural and then the N52 further cemented it. In fact, for all the complaints people had for N52 TT, it managed to give Tim his own corner of the DCU, letting him spread his wings and be more than "another" Robin. So is not surprising that when Rebirth returned him to Bruce's side while also putting him into his old Robin costume, Tim kind of became superfluous to the bat family since he didn't offer anything that other characters (some of which editorial/writers were more interested in pushing) could already do, leading to him getting stuck into editorial limbo until Bendis requested him for YJ. Now, I've never read YJ but since Tim is back to being Robin, is pretty evident that whatever Bendis tried to do with Drake simply didn't work, and is entirely possible that editorial has just given up and decide to let Tim as Robin, damming him to be an afterthought when none of the other Robins -that arguably play better the family dynamics- aren't available for some reason.

I definitely agree that Tim as Red Robin, while something he was forced into, ended up being a culmination of his character in many ways...although also a sign that there were some things about being Robin that he just couldn't let go.

Tim having his own Titans corner might have worked out for him had the quality of the stories and characterizations actually been better than they were or the characters felt recognizable.

I don't think returning to being Bruce's Robin woulld've been a problem so much if Tynion hadn't benched him for so long or the Batfamily titles felt more interconnected than they did back then.

[KrustyKid]

And now Damian has been forced out for Tim so what goes around. Just wish they'd just fired him rather than demonise him to facilitate the change.

On the flip at least they didn't kill him off like they did with Jason to make the change so sliver lining I suppose.

How so? It was Damian's choice to quit being Robin, no one forced or influenced that decision.

As for Tim being Robin again I feel it was a late adjustment since 5G was canceled, if it had not been I have no doubt Tim would have still been 'Drake'. I'm pretty sure introducing a new Robin to go with Luke's Batman was the ultimate plan, Tim just ended up being the rebound guy in all of this since plans changed in that regard. On the flip side whatever they're planning on doing with Damian must still be in play, whether it be Red-X or him becoming Robin again at some point is yet to be seen.

[Godlike13]

Robin > Tim. We all know what Robin does for Tim, but what does Tim do for Robin now. He’s a dead end. This just proves it. Every rehash they have tried with him has failed. Young Justice should have been a red flag, but instead of heeding that response they are doubling down. Him as Robin at this point just turns Robin into a dead end too.

[Sergard]

You know I might be stretching it here but does the reflect of the people hunting Bruce in Future State kind of look like the person from the cover of Red Hood #52?

Attachment 101474

Attachment 101475

I noticed the similarity too - especially because both covers were drawn by Dan Mora. Maybe the characters are related. I guess the guy on the Dark Detective cover is Peacekeeper One.

[lemonpeace]

Robin > Tim. We all know what Robin does for Tim, but what does Tim do for Robin. He’s a dead end. This just proves it. Every rehash they have tried with him has failed. Young Justice should have been a red flag, but instead of heeding that response they are doubling down. Him as Robin at this point just turns Robin into a dead end too.

Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at with it. love of have it but at least every Robin to come after him brought a unique angle to the role. Damian took the robin title and spun the dynamic by adding a more literak and direct family angle, adding weight to the ideas of legacy and inheritance, while Duke and We are Robin was at the very least a wild swing that took a somewhat philosophical approach to what Robin could mean to Gotham. Tim just doesn't bring anything to the table that makes me go "hmm, that's a cool take on Robin".

[Tzigone]

Damian took the robin title and spun the dynamic by adding a more literak and direct family angle, adding weight to the ideas of legacy and inheritance

Now there's an aspect I disagree with you on. That the biological child is more important in terms of legacy and inheritance than the adopted ones. That's a no-go to me. Not that I want Tim to go back to being Robin (or even wanted him adopted by Bruce - I liked the angle of him not being Bruce's ward/child as something different). But he should be grown up and independent by now, anyway, and that aspect would be gone no matter what, as its time has passed.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Now there's an aspect I disagree with you on. That the biological child is more important in terms of legacy and inheritance than the adopted ones. That's a no-go to me. Not that I want Tim to go back to being Robin (or even wanted him adopted by Bruce - I liked the angle of him not being Bruce's ward/child as something different). But he should be grown up and independent by now, anyway, and that aspect would be gone no matter what, as its time has passed.

But it literally it is. Damian being Bruce's biological son is the one thing that let him made his mark within the Bat Mythos these fast, plus it offers a far wider array of narrative possibilities that were not possible to explore with the previous Robins.

Anyways, Williamson shared a letterless page of Future State: Red Hood



https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...37461223419904

Milonogianis does a beautiful art but Jason's costume sucks big time. Why is so hard to go back to the Rebirth costume?

[lemonpeace]

Now there's an aspect I disagree with you on. That the biological child is more important in terms of legacy and inheritance than the adopted ones. That's a no-go to me. Not that I want Tim to go back to being Robin (or even wanted him adopted by Bruce - I liked the angle of him not being Bruce's ward/child as something different). But he should be grown up and independent by now, anyway, and that aspect would be gone no matter what, as its time has passed.

I'm not saying him being a biological child made him more important than the others, but introducing him as Robin and Bruce's biological son raised a lot of interesting ideas about family, inheritance, and the pressure of legacy just by juxtaposing him to the Robin's that came before him that Bruce had made into his family when he felt he had none left (sans Alfred, rest his soul...no seriously let this man's soul rest DC). It was an interesting angle that made all the Robin characters more interesting imo, I don't think Tim does that. Tim came about when Robin was a little more simple, but I feel they've said all that he had to say about the role and he doesn't have anything that was so compelling that he NEEDED to be Robin again; except that they couldn't find anything else to do with Tim Drake.