Should Forge be considered an Omega Level Mutant?

[babyblob]

I really love Forge. just the stuff he can do is amazing. But I have always wondered should he be considered an Omgea Level mutant? or at least in the conversation for one of the most powerful mutants?

I know that some Omega Level mutants have the power to alter and even destroy the world. But Forge has that same power. he can build machines that can take away mutant powers, and if he wanted that can destory the world. The fact that he can do something like this and can do it with out much trouble should he be considered one of the most powerful mutants

[Viteh]

By Hickman's new definition, no. He literally used Forge as an example of a mutant who is not an Omega Level mutant. Basically, it was because his power of "invention" can and has been surpassed.

[loke13]

By Hickman's new definition, no. He literally used Forge as an example of a mutant who is not an Omega Level mutant. Basically, it was because his power of "invention" can and has been surpassed.

Ding ding ding.

[RamaBird]

By Hickman's new definition, no. He literally used Forge as an example of a mutant who is not an Omega Level mutant. Basically, it was because his power of "invention" can and has been surpassed.

Is there a better explanation?

His power of invention has been surpassed cause he's a C-list character. If he was A-list, under the write pen, he'd have way more impressive feats. Tech they could write him as building tech that allows him to rival Sentinels like Nimrod, no? If he can build anything, he'd be able to build a suit at Iron Man levels? But since he's C-list...

I mean, it's like saying Iceman was not Omega all those years he never even used his powers that well. It's only now after decades that writers are giving Iceman the feats he's always been capable of.

[babyblob]

Is there a better explanation?

His power of invention has been surpassed cause he's a C-list character. If he was A-list, under the write pen, he'd have way more impressive feats. Tech they could write him as building tech that allows him to rival Sentinels like Nimrod, no? If he can build anything, he'd be able to build a suit at Iron Man levels? But since he's C-list...

I mean, it's like saying Iceman was not Omega all those years he never even used his powers that well. It's only now after decades that writers are giving Iceman the feats he's always been capable of.

This. I would love to see what Forge does with a writer who cares about him. Everything that mutants can do, every Superpower he can create a machine for.

I am sure that his tech can and has been surpassed just as other Omega level mutants like Magneto have been surpassed. Being beaten many times does not make Magento any less of an Omega mutant so why does Forge's tech being suppressed in the past make him less of an Omega mutant?

[loke13]

Is there a better explanation?

His power of invention has been surpassed cause he's a C-list character. If he was A-list, under the write pen, he'd have way more impressive feats. Tech they could write him as building tech that allows him to rival Sentinels like Nimrod, no? If he can build anything, he'd be able to build a suit at Iron Man levels? But since he's C-list...

I mean, it's like saying Iceman was not Omega all those years he never even used his powers that well. It's only now after decades that writers are giving Iceman the feats he's always been capable of.

There's really nothing wrong with the explanation though House of X says that Forge is the most powerful mutant of his power type on the planet Earth (Tecnopathy) but that the upper limits of forges measurable Powers could be hypothetically surpassed and actually has been surpassed by multiple humans on the planet.

[Triniking1234]

Is there a better explanation?

His power of invention has been surpassed cause he's a C-list character. If he was A-list, under the write pen, he'd have way more impressive feats. Tech they could write him as building tech that allows him to rival Sentinels like Nimrod, no? If he can build anything, he'd be able to build a suit at Iron Man levels? But since he's C-list...

I mean, it's like saying Iceman was not Omega all those years he never even used his powers that well. It's only now after decades that writers are giving Iceman the feats he's always been capable of.

Being A-list doesn't guarantee Omega status. Cyclops, Xavier, Wolverine and Kitty are A-Listers with impressive feats but they're still not Omega. Iceman gets jobbed more than Jean and he's still Omega.

[loke13]

This. I would love to see what Forge does with a writer who cares about him. Everything that mutants can do, every Superpower he can create a machine for.

I am sure that his tech can and has been surpassed just as other Omega level mutants like Magneto have been surpassed. Being beaten many times does not make Magento any less of an Omega mutant so why does Forge's tech being suppressed in the past make him less of an Omega mutant?

Because being an Omega Level mutant isn't it about winning battles. An Omega Level mutant is a mutant whose is dominant power registers or can reach an undefinable upper limit. Meaning you can still be an Omega Level mutant without ever exhibiting the godlike potential of your powers.

That's the in story reason anyway but let's be honest prior to Hickman every writer could classify their favorite character as an Omega Level mutant without Rhyme or Reason. He culled the list and gave a concrete definition for it. A lot of people's favorite characters didn't really make the list but oh well.

It's not like this list even does anything anyway though other than bragging rights.

[Cyke]

I am sure that his tech can and has been surpassed just as other Omega level mutants like Magneto have been surpassed. Being beaten many times does not make Magento any less of an Omega mutant so why does Forge's tech being suppressed in the past make him less of an Omega mutant?

That's what I'm thinking. Magneto, Beast, and arguably Xavier himself have made inventions that outscale Forge, plus Forge's ability sometimes doesn't allow him to understand the mechanics and theoretical principles to understand his own work. He can't build Cerebro because he doesn't know the physics of psychic energy, but he can modify, repair, upgrade the machine (the upgrades being his invention).

Still, Forge in the hands of a proper writer should be a force to be reckoned with. Stark and Richards are smarter and better engineers, but Forge's prowess at invention was just as instrumental in helping them build the first Helicarrier.

I'm thinking of Forge as analogous to Cypher in some ways. Cypher's mutant ability of language is extremely valuable and deserves more credit than he's usually given. His mutant ability allows him to read body language in h2h fights. But that's not going to make him a better fighter than Daredevil or Shang-Chi without the proper education and training. He's a decent fighter but not top tier (or even 3rd tier) by any means.

[babyblob]

Not going to argue about Forge being an Omega Mutant because your guys make some good cases. I will say he is way more powerful then he is written. I would still rank him as Omega At least in my mind but I wont drag down the thread with debates based on my personal opinion.

On the topic of Omega mutants powers being surpassed by humans. Wouldnt a human like Reed or Tony be able to invent a machine or device that would be able to equal Magento's powers? Couldnt they make a device that shuts down Xavier's powers? And Scarlett Witch. From what I understand she is not a true mutant. (Could be wrong I am a bit confused on that.) But her reality warping powers created The House of M universe and Depowered many mutants. So if she is not a mutant would that mean her power is equal to or surpassed Reality warping Omega mutants?

[RamaBird]

That's what I'm thinking. Magneto, Beast, and arguably Xavier himself have made inventions that outscale Forge, plus Forge's ability sometimes doesn't allow him to understand the mechanics and theoretical principles to understand his own work. He can't build Cerebro because he doesn't know the physics of psychic energy, but he can modify, repair, upgrade the machine (the upgrades being his invention).

Still, Forge in the hands of a proper writer should be a force to be reckoned with. Stark and Richards are smarter and better engineers, but Forge's prowess at invention was just as instrumental in helping them build the first Helicarrier.

I'm thinking of Forge as analogous to Cypher in some ways. Cypher's mutant ability of language is extremely valuable and deserves more credit than he's usually given. His mutant ability allows him to read body language in h2h fights. But that's not going to make him a better fighter than Daredevil or Shang-Chi without the proper education and training. He's a decent fighter but not top tier (or even 3rd tier) by any means.

I like this explanation of his powers.

I think problems with characters like Forge and Cypher, is that due to their powers being more cerebral and less showy, writers tend to avoid them. Both of them are also introverted especially compared to Iron Man.

[RobbHill]

I'm new at this so I don't know how the quoting thing works haha but this is to Babyblob

I think you might be viewing that comparison wrong haha. The Forge example is a way of showing that there is a feasible limit to Forge's power because a human could beat him at his own game meaning he's not the most powerful technopath that could possibly exist, its a lot of conjecture. Having their powers dampened by outside forces doesn't mean they can't be Omega level, there are tons of psychic dampeners that exist. Omega level is kinda like sheer natural talent, Jean is an Omega level telepath meaning she has the potential to be the greatest Telepath but that doesn't mean she can't be out skilled by Professor X or Emma Frost.
Scarlet Witch isn't a mutant at the moment in comics, She doesn't have an X-gene. She is classified as a Mutate, which is someone that was altered from a baseline human (such as Spider-man, Captain America, Daredevil, and the Fantastic Four). She was changed from a mutant for business reasons and I really hope they change her and her brother back to mutants.
Scarlet Witch couldn't remove someone from the Omega list because we have 3 reality warpers already on it so it's not a one-per-power type of thing. It just means that all these reality warpers have no upper limit on what the could potentially do with their powers

[frostedemma]

No. Just like Doug isn't an omega level just because he can speak and understand every language in the universe. Both Forge and Doug are very smart and can achieve incredible feats thanks to their mutation but that doesn't mean they should be omega level. You can be a very powerful mutant without having omega level powers, plus how can you have an omega level intelligence?

[babyblob]

No. Just like Doug isn't an omega level just because he can speak and understand every language in the universe. Both Forge and Doug are very smart and can achieve incredible feats thanks to their mutation but that doesn't mean they should be omega level. You can be a very powerful mutant without having omega level powers, plus how can you have an omega level intelligence?

I can understand Doug not being Omega level because knowing how to speak every language is not useful in combat. I just think a case can be made for Forge because yes his power is building machines and weapons but those machines and weapons could make him the equal to any mutant or any other hero or villain out there. Yes there are humans who could do the same or better. But that doesnt change the fact that Forge could create a machine that could put him on an equal level with Magneto or Iceman. or cancel out Xavier's Physic power and take him down.

So I guess I dont understand if you have the power to make machines that would make you equal to Omega level mutants why you yourself would not be considered an Omega because of that power.

Ckye pointed out that Forge could not build a Cerebro because he does not understand the physics of psychic energy. But Forge could invent a machine that detects mutants another way, and I am sure some of the Physic powers (Welll not Mind reading) could be copied with a machine or weapon.

Natural powers are great. But having powers preproduced by artificial means does not make you any less of a threat.

Magneto can if he wanted throw Earth of its axis. Forge thanks to his power can build a machine that can do the same. That puts him on par with Magneto I think.

[OopsIdiditagain]

I can understand Doug not being Omega level because knowing how to speak every language is not useful in combat. I just think a case can be made for Forge because yes his power is building machines and weapons but those machines and weapons could make him the equal to any mutant or any other hero or villain out there. Yes there are humans who could do the same or better. But that doesnt change the fact that Forge could create a machine that could put him on an equal level with Magneto or Iceman. or cancel out Xavier's Physic power and take him down.

So I guess I dont understand if you have the power to make machines that would make you equal to Omega level mutants why you yourself would not be considered an Omega because of that power.

Ckye pointed out that Forge could not build a Cerebro because he does not understand the physics of psychic energy. But Forge could invent a machine that detects mutants another way, and I am sure some of the Physic powers (Welll not Mind reading) could be copied with a machine or weapon.

Natural powers are great. But having powers preproduced by artificial means does not make you any less of a threat.

Magneto can if he wanted throw Earth of its axis. Forge thanks to his power can build a machine that can do the same. That puts him on par with Magneto I think.

Maybe it's because knowing every language isn't limitless. He still needs a subject/language/pattern to understand. It's hard to explain but if his power wasn't just understanding language(body/word) but knowing the meaning of anything even when it's nonsensical or doesn't have a system like most languages. He would definitely be omega.