Excalibur #13 - Preview

[Frostfire]

When she says "let me know when you need a mutant to walk you through the gate" what does that mean exactly? Can you walk a human through the gate as long as you're holding hands or something?

[pkingdom]

It’s a tad strong then to call a fan favorite “the worse” if you really are not very familiar character. Even if I don’t like a character I won’t go hating on them online, specially in a thread of a book where she’s one of the main characters.

Fine, I was trying to be nice. But Betsy is awful. Just an awful protagonist and a terrible leader. She's done almost nothing but fight generic soldiers of Morgan's and do whatever Apocalypse wants, which has involved making war on the Otherworld that Captain Britain is supposed to protect. Given that she's supposed to be the leader of Excalibur this entire mess with Arrako is partially her fault, because she aided and abetted Apocalypse with her team in causing this disaster for the rest of Krakoa. So what if I'm not familiar with her ridiculous backstory involving body stealing a sexy ninja lady. This comic has utterly failed at making her compelling, interesting or likable. This is supposed to be a new turning point for her, so an ideal jumping on point for the character. But she has so failed at leadership I actively want the mantle taken from her. She doesn't deserve it.

[pkingdom]

When she says "let me know when you need a mutant to walk you through the gate" what does that mean exactly? Can you walk a human through the gate as long as you're holding hands or something?

That's precisely it. Non-mutants can get in if they are touching a mutant or have mutant parts grafted into/onto them. Deadpool was even able to sneak in by being eaten by a monster mutant.

[Psy-lock]

Fine, I was trying to be nice. But Betsy is awful. Just an awful protagonist and a terrible leader. She's done almost nothing but fight generic soldiers of Morgan's and do whatever Apocalypse wants, which has involved making war on the Otherworld that Captain Britain is supposed to protect. Given that she's supposed to be the leader of Excalibur this entire mess with Arrako is partially her fault, because she aided and abetted Apocalypse with her team in causing this disaster for the rest of Krakoa. So what if I'm not familiar with her ridiculous backstory involving body stealing a sexy ninja lady. This comic has utterly failed at making her compelling, interesting or likable. This is supposed to be a new turning point for her, so an ideal jumping on point for the character. But she has so failed at leadership I actively want the mantle taken from her. She doesn't deserve it.

She didn't steal anyone's body. That's just revisionist history pushed by Marvel to make themselves look less racist.

I can't fault you for not liking her though. Hell, she's my favorite character and I can't bring myself to like her in this title either. Marvel took away her codename, personality and iconography and given it to Kwannon, so that they can keep making money off of the asian ninja stereotype without the past baggage. Kwannon now is essentially what Besty has been for decades, while Betsy...I guess she's an "entitled princess" by Howard's own words.

[nx01a]

She didn't steal anyone's body. That's just revisionist history pushed by Marvel to make themselves look less racist.

That was actually a mistake on Fabian Nicieza's part which he's admitted to several times over the decades. He got the history about Betsy's transformation into Asian Ninja Action Girl wrong and made it like she swapped bodies, not that her original British body was heavily modified.

I can't fault you for not liking her though. Hell, she's my favorite character and I can't bring myself to like her in this title either. Marvel took away her codename, personality and iconography and given it to Kwannon, so that they can keep making money off of the asian ninja stereotype without the past baggage. Kwannon now is essentially what Besty has been for decades, while Betsy...I guess she's an "entitled princess" by Howard's own words.

I quite enjoyed Outback Betsy. Put her in a cowl and cape again but make the armour psionic this time, retain her telekinetic weapons, and bring back her precognitive flashes. Hell, have her be the one to expose Moira X! Most importantly, find something for her to do that doesn't involve disadvantaging other heroes and stealing from them.

I honestly stopped reading this title at issue #3 so I can only speak up until that point... but I really didn't enjoy those issues of Excalibur aka Apocalypse's solo title featuring Betsy and Rictor. Hopefully the title will end after XoS removes any reason for it to exist. Fallen Angels ended (I know, for writer-based reasons). Maybe this needs to end, too, and then the franchise can focus beyond magic into space with S.W.⨂.R.D. for the cosmic side of things.

[Psy-lock]

That was actually a mistake on Fabian Nicieza's part which he's admitted to several times over the decades. He got the history about Betsy's transformation into Asian Ninja Action Girl wrong and made it like she swapped bodies, not that her original British body was heavily modified

I'm not talking about that old retcon. I mean the new revisionist version of it, making Betsy look like the bad guy.

[Woozie]

Here's the real question. Why the bloody hell are ANY OF THEM THERE?!

[LoganAlpha30X33]

To follow Apocalypse and help him achiever whatever it is that he wants to achieve, all without really being skeptic about anything or having any doubts, Jubilee is too busy worrying about her kid to do anything else...

[Woozie]

No, I don't mean excalibur. I mean, why are betsy, Brian and Jamie at the Starlight citadel?

Avalon is where the portal is.

[Sutekh]

LOL at Jamie wearing Sinister's cape that he got in this week's Hellions.

Yes, that part made me smile.

[Triniking1234]

I'm not talking about that old retcon. I mean the new revisionist version of it, making Betsy look like the bad guy.

The one from Fallen Angels or the one from Mystery in Madripoor.

[MentalManipulator]

Fine, I was trying to be nice. But Betsy is awful. Just an awful protagonist and a terrible leader. She's done almost nothing but fight generic soldiers of Morgan's and do whatever Apocalypse wants, which has involved making war on the Otherworld that Captain Britain is supposed to protect. Given that she's supposed to be the leader of Excalibur this entire mess with Arrako is partially her fault, because she aided and abetted Apocalypse with her team in causing this disaster for the rest of Krakoa. So what if I'm not familiar with her ridiculous backstory involving body stealing a sexy ninja lady. This comic has utterly failed at making her compelling, interesting or likable. This is supposed to be a new turning point for her, so an ideal jumping on point for the character. But she has so failed at leadership I actively want the mantle taken from her. She doesn't deserve it.

That was you trying to be nice?

I am sorry notpokeman fan, but read more before judging a character by only one bad written arc and what you superficially know. I don't love Excalibur either, but I have 40 years of publication to enjoy my favorite character being written well several times. As very capable, a good leader and a great protagonist.

Go put you hate somewhere else. Don't like it? Guess what: nobody is forcing you to read it.

Remember, these are fictional characters, they're just as good as the writers in charge of developing them, make them be. And Tini is not the best there is right now, specially because we have so many good ones on the other x-books right now. Kwannon was weird in Fallen Angels and now she's amazing in Hellions. Is she the worse for that? No. She just got a good writer that likes and understands her.

But by any means, keep pouring in your superficial impressions on the internet right? Superficiality seems to be the tone nowadays online right?

[loke13]

That's precisely it. Non-mutants can get in if they are touching a mutant or have mutant parts grafted into/onto them. Deadpool was even able to sneak in by being eaten by a monster mutant.

That's not actually it humans just needed mutant to accompany them through a Gateway they don't need to be physically touching. And as far as humans needing to graft mutant body parts onto themselves to enter a Gateway we haven't seen any instances of that.

[pkingdom]

That was you trying to be nice?

I am sorry notpokeman fan, but read more before judging a character by only one bad written arc and what you superficially know. I don't love Excalibur either, but I have 40 years of publication to enjoy my favorite character being written well several times. As very capable, a good leader and a great protagonist.

Go put you hate somewhere else. Don't like it? Guess what: nobody is forcing you to read it.

Remember, these are fictional characters, they're just as good as the writers in charge of developing them, make them be. And Tini is not the best there is right now, specially because we have so many good ones on the other x-books right now. Kwannon was weird in Fallen Angels and now she's amazing in Hellions. Is she the worse for that? No. She just got a good writer that likes and understands her.

But by any means, keep pouring in your superficial impressions on the internet right? Superficiality seems to be the tone nowadays online right?

This isn't the Betsy Braddock fan page. I don't go into there to talk about how awful the character is. Those pages are specifically for fans, and you'd be right to criticize me if I went into the Betsy, or Emma, or Apocalypse pages and ranted about how awful they are. This is the Excalibur topic, and if a character is being terribly written in Excalibur this is the exact place to talk about it. That even on this topic people are going back and forth about being unsure about whether Betsy is a body snatcher tells me that I'm not the only one who finds her backstory confusing. I am well within my right to find a character terrible. If she's your favorite, fine. But based on what I'm reading in the series going on right now, she's a terrible character and terrible protagonist, TO ME. You don't get to tell me I can't express my opinion here.

That's not actually it humans just needed mutant to accompany them through a Gateway they don't need to be physically touching. And as far as humans needing to graft mutant body parts onto themselves to enter a Gateway we haven't seen any instances of that.

I swear something like that happened in X-force early on, but its been a while and I might be wrong. I thought they did something with parts of Domino.

[Woozie]

I swear something like that happened in X-force early on, but its been a while and I might be wrong. I thought they did something with parts of Domino.

They did that so that Black Tom would register them as Domino, not to walk through the gate.