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  1. #91
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I might have posted this twice. I don’t think he is a hypocrite. I think his comics try to be evolved in their thinking. I don’t sign on everything he has done, but his best comics don’t make the mistakes of the culture he is criticizing.

  2. #92
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Kerouac was a racist, an anti-communist, who supported the war in Vietnam. Kerouac also liked smoking pot and having sex with guys so there's that, but the latter doesn't cancel the former.



    That's getting further away from this issue. The point is that people who read Watchmen and like Watchmen don't have any doubts where Moore stands on politics and other issues. That's not comparable to Kerouac because his relatively apolitical tribute to personal experimentation and drugs won over people who totally didn't get Kerouac's political opinions and views (which he cynically kept to himself by and large).
    Wait I change my answer that sounds like Roger Stone except he keeps that out there. And I’m not that invested in the comparison. ( Thats informative about Kerouac!)
    Last edited by Johnny Thunders!; Yesterday at 07:25 AM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Moore is one of comics greatest creative talents. He's also a cranky old coot.

    If you read his Prometha, you get a pretty clear picture of how he views reality and capitalism. It's a really good read, BTW, if a bit of a skull bender.

    I don't think him a hypocrite. True, he made his fame on others' creations, but its not like he took ownership of that IP, and has sat around harvesting the surplus from those creations. I can see where your question comes from because he altered Swamp Thing and Marvel Man almost as much as Marvel Studios has Thor or Scarlet Witch. However, I think his real beef is about IP owners hoarding the monetary benefits of the comic creations.

    I do think his position on IP ownership unrealistic. That's not to say wrong, but given how the laws of IP ownership work, he shouldn't expect otherwise. Comic companies probably deserve his windmill-tilting a bit less than the society that sets the rules of intellectual property.
    Yeah, I think this is it; he’s not so much a hypocrite as much as an old guy who hates what the more leery side of capitalism has done to one of his favorite art mediums, but is more stubbornly cranky and grumbly at times than incisively targeted.

    Comics were a corporate-dominated medium long before he arrived, he made his name with the properties he was given to create with or be inspired by, and they remain corporate-dominated medium after he left the mainstream.

    He’s always going to be a legend, and he’s always going to have a point... but his point would be better made by guys like Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, or Bill Finger. And there’s a few things he’s done that have made the cranky old man aspect more clear for the time being.

    IP ownership is a funny thing - the ability to use older IPs, whether through public domain (like Moore’s usage of classic characters in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) or through corporate running of them (regular comics, with guys like Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder doing legendary things with soemone’s else’s character) allows mythos to survive, but it’s folly to pretend that the creators have ever reaped *all* the fruits of their labors.
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  4. #94
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    He’s always going to be a legend, and he’s always going to have a point... but his point would be better made by guys like Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster,
    Siegel and Shuster did make that point, repeatedly, multiple times.

    IP ownership is a funny thing - the ability to use older IPs, whether through public domain (like Moore’s usage of classic characters in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) or through corporate running of them (regular comics, with guys like Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder doing legendary things with soemone’s else’s character) allows mythos to survive, but it’s folly to pretend that the creators have ever reaped *all* the fruits of their labors.
    Again, that's not the point.

    WATCHMEN was intended to be, and understood to be, a standalone creative owned work whose rights were expected to be returned to Moore-Gibbons. The closest analogy is Kieron Gillen signing with Image to do The Wicked + The Divine but Image then screw him over (which Image hasn't done, that we know of).

    It's not the same thing as working on licensed IP.

    Moore doesn't want the rights of Swamp Thing, Superman, or even John Constantine (a character he co-created and introduced into the DC Universe). He wanted Watchmen which was his by right.

  5. #95
    Incredible Member Ishmael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post

    What do you mean by "fill-ins"? Your entire post is vague and suggestive, making airy references to stuff that feels insinuating in the McCarthyist fashion. If you can make specific charges and give examples and so on, then it might actually give something to respond to.
    Alan, is that you?

    How droll that a grammar Nazi would accuse someone else of "McCarthist fashion." Troll on, friend, troll on.

  6. #96
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishmael View Post
    Alan, is that you?
    God I wish. That would make me a creative genius who has written masterpieces every decade of my career (which cannot be said of Frank Miller, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman, among others).

    Sadly I am not.

    How droll that a grammar Nazi would accuse someone else of "McCarthist fashion."
    It's McCarthyist. The "y" is not silent, my dude.

    McCarthyist happens to be a real word, on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism). Also the Collins Dictionary (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us...sh/mccarthyist).

  7. #97
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I thought I would get called out for not knowing Wertham well enough?!?

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