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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    A great story undoing OMD would be one that sees Spider-Man march into hell and "attack and dethrone Mephisto" with the help of Doctor Doom and Doctor Strange, as a kind of sequel and update to the classic Triumph and Torment story. There would be a lot of fun to be had with that.

    Peter got gaslighted essentially into becoming a different version of himself. He got his memories and emotional growth stolen. Fundamentally marriage is just not the same as a committed relationship especially for a character like Peter. To know that you once made that committment and to have that undone is pretty cruel all things considered. So I'd say that the characters did lose a great deal.
    I could see this working as a main premise.

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    It not being clear enough what they lost - seriously, from Peter's POV and not ours as readers, what exactly did he lose? The reader lost 20 years of continuity and a mature-written Spider-Man. But Peter as a fictional character isn't aware/concerned with those things and is still together with MJ. Restoring the marriage is important due to the nature of Peter being a fictional character and the real-life consequences that OMD had. From a story perspective though, Peter played Mephisto by managing to save Aunt May while keeping MJ. Peter as a person can technically live happily after with MJ as long as they don't sign a marriage certificate.
    Lol, this remind me to a quote that read once "so if you want to make a deal with the devil, go with the Marvel version, becausw that guy has no idea of what he is doing"
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  3. #33

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    There's a simpler and more mundane way to deal with this. They remember the deal, face the emotional consequences of it for a couple of months... and that's it. The marriage is not magically restored. Which means... let's have a new marriage!

    As if Marvel was really going to skip the chance for a big, oversized and expensive "Spider-Man gets married again!" graphic novel.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Agreed.



    A great story undoing OMD would be one that sees Spider-Man march into hell and "attack and dethrone Mephisto" with the help of Doctor Doom and Doctor Strange, as a kind of sequel and update to the classic Triumph and Torment story. There would be a lot of fun to be had with that.



    These are good points. I don't think it's totally unworkable but I concede they are issues to work around. At the very least they are story points worth addressing.



    Peter got gaslighted essentially into becoming a different version of himself. He got his memories and emotional growth stolen. Fundamentally marriage is just not the same as a committed relationship especially for a character like Peter. To know that you once made that committment and to have that undone is pretty cruel all things considered. So I'd say that the characters did lose a great deal.



    Wouldn't be a bad idea, all things considered.
    Doom has no business being in that story.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Peter always runs away from power rather than denying it outright.Thatís what made his dismantling of Parker Industries so infuriating to me.
    Hmm... so Peter needs his own Akuma/Vergil.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicGoji View Post
    Hmm... so Peter needs his own Akuma/Vergil.
    Hmm, that could be interesting. The two closest examples I can think of, in terms of placing and seeking power over responsibility while having similar abilities, are Ezekiel Sims and Otto Octavius as the Superior Spider-Man. Then again, given that Blood Spider and Steel Spider are still alive and nothing's been done with them as of late, could just dust either of them off as an Akuma/Vergil-style rival to Peter --- similarly powered, similarly skilled, but far more ruthless and unscrupulous in pursuing power as his main goal. If Steel Spider, could play upon the more tragic aspects of his character following Gargan-Venom chewing his arm off, which leads to him replacing it with a cybernetic limb and later augmenting his entire body through a cybernetic exoskeleton in the vein of the Metal Gear franchise's Cyborg Ninja, so he won't ever again be as helpless as he was against Gargan.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicGoji View Post
    Hmm... so Peter needs his own Akuma/Vergil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Hmm, that could be interesting. The two closest examples I can think of, in terms of placing and seeking power over responsibility while having similar abilities, are Ezekiel Sims and Otto Octavius as the Superior Spider-Man. Then again, given that Blood Spider and Steel Spider are still alive and nothing's been done with them as of late, could just dust either of them off as an Akuma/Vergil-style rival to Peter --- similarly powered, similarly skilled, but far more ruthless and unscrupulous in pursuing power as his main goal. If Steel Spider, could play upon the more tragic aspects of his character following Gargan-Venom chewing his arm off, which leads to him replacing it with a cybernetic limb and later augmenting his entire body through a cybernetic exoskeleton in the vein of the Metal Gear franchise's Cyborg Ninja, so he won't ever again be as helpless as he was against Gargan.
    I think that’s a bad idea because it’s similar to Superior or Spencer’s introductory arc.

    All they really did was seek power rather than try to be heroes. It’s partially their examples as to why Peter doesn’t try to do more; he’s worried that he’s going to end up like them: irresponsible and dangerous.

  8. #38
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I think that’s a bad idea because it’s similar to Superior or Spencer’s introductory arc.

    All they really did was seek power rather than try to be heroes. It’s partially their examples as to why Peter doesn’t try to do more; he’s worried that he’s going to end up like them: irresponsible and dangerous.
    A very good point, all things considered.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    The problem I always had with the “plagiarism” angle is that short of revealing his identity, there really wasn’t much he could do about it beyond doing nothing which is something I’d hate even more. He honestly gets too much hate for it already.

    Peter always runs away from power rather than denying it outright. That’s what made his dismantling of Parker Industries so infuriating to me.
    To be fair, him nuking PI was more because of his dumbass attempt to stop Otto from getting it, not because he decided to run away from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicGoji View Post
    Hmm... so Peter needs his own Akuma/Vergil.
    Akuma I can see what you mean, but Vergil is too selfish to try to help someone who isn't him to have power, plus both would try to kill him if he got a lot of power, Akuma because of fight fetish, Vergil because he's a selfish douche, so that wouldn't work well for Spidey .

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Hmm, that could be interesting. The two closest examples I can think of, in terms of placing and seeking power over responsibility while having similar abilities, are Ezekiel Sims and Otto Octavius as the Superior Spider-Man. Then again, given that Blood Spider and Steel Spider are still alive and nothing's been done with them as of late, could just dust either of them off as an Akuma/Vergil-style rival to Peter --- similarly powered, similarly skilled, but far more ruthless and unscrupulous in pursuing power as his main goal. If Steel Spider, could play upon the more tragic aspects of his character following Gargan-Venom chewing his arm off, which leads to him replacing it with a cybernetic limb and later augmenting his entire body through a cybernetic exoskeleton in the vein of the Metal Gear franchise's Cyborg Ninja, so he won't ever again be as helpless as he was against Gargan.
    Ezekiel is really close to that, yeah, but he sought power to someday become a hero, but kept post poning that day forever because of his own selfishness, so he's close enough.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    To be fair, him nuking PI was more because of his dumbass attempt to stop Otto from getting it, not because he decided to run away from it.



    Akuma I can see what you mean, but Vergil is too selfish to try to help someone who isn't him to have power, plus both would try to kill him if he got a lot of power, Akuma because of fight fetish, Vergil because he's a selfish douche, so that wouldn't work well for Spidey .



    Ezekiel is really close to that, yeah, but he sought power to someday become a hero, but kept post poning that day forever because of his own selfishness, so he's close enough.
    Considering at that time, Otto was working with HYDRA in Secret Empire, him getting PI --- specifically the functional time machine in the Baxter Building owned by PI --- would've been nothing short of a catastrophe.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Akuma I can see what you mean, but Vergil is too selfish to try to help someone who isn't him to have power, plus both would try to kill him if he got a lot of power, Akuma because of fight fetish, Vergil because he's a selfish douche, so that wouldn't work well for Spidey .
    Well, not necessarily help. Just a inadvertent reality check. Someone (or something) that'd question Peter's insistence on running from what he is, push him to the point where he has to stop running, and alter his stance on power.
    Last edited by CosmicGoji; 10-18-2020 at 08:36 PM.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Considering at that time, Otto was working with HYDRA in Secret Empire, him getting PI --- specifically the functional time machine in the Baxter Building owned by PI --- would've been nothing short of a catastrophe.
    Otto's loyalty towards Hydra was a bit iffy though, he seemed to join them more because of mutual interests, he said in ASM#29 that "their day is coming", pretty much saying they won't last, and he did invade the building in China alone, so unless Hydra Cap won, which if he did, the time machine would be redundant because the Cosmic Cube can rewrite history anyways, which was even briefly done, I don't see Hydra getting PI, Otto certainly wasn't going to share it lol.

    Checking out ASM#30 vol 4, found a page I remember detesting, but forgot about:



    "Someone always helps Spider-Man. Mockingbird, Prowler, Human Torch, Silver Sable, who will it be this time?"

    Yuck.

    It's still worth pointing out though, while Peter did have good intentions when nuking PI, it was a seriously moronic move, you don't have to destroy every device PI has to "shut down" the company to make sure Otto isn't gonna get it, just destroy the building and let the rest of the devices keep working, and doing so without backup is also dumb because it means he can't rebuild, Slott could've made a better excuse than this, and it wouldn't even be difficult, like say, have Otto actually manage to get PI, and spread some virus in every device that is minimally connected with PI, so Peter would have to shut the whole company down to get rid of it, it still would look rushed as hell to get rid of PI, but at least it would be more justified and less dumb looking lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicGoji View Post
    Well, not necessarily help. Just a inadvertent reality check. Someone (or something) that'd question Peter's insistence on running from what he is, push him to the point where he has to stop running, and alter his stance on power.
    Which he did a few times, him and MJ trained a bit with Cap, forgot where but maybe Marvel Knights? It was early 2000's, before Civil War, and he also accepted The Other, and then learned Spider-Fu to compensate for the lack of Spider-Sense... Which mostly made no difference since Spider-Fu only showed up twice after Spider-Island, but hey lol.

    So we had a few times where he decided to use more of his potential, it just doesn't stick, which sucks, while him becoming a better fighter can be weird (Even though I do like the idea of Spider-Fu), he could at least try to make some other device that he uses more than just "I made this to defeat a villain and will leave it behind now", last one he invented that he still uses is the Spider-Tracer, which I think is Post-Ditko, but probably from the 70's at the latest.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    So we had a few times where he decided to use more of his potential, it just doesn't stick, which sucks, while him becoming a better fighter can be weird (Even though I do like the idea of Spider-Fu), he could at least try to make some other device that he uses more than just "I made this to defeat a villain and will leave it behind now", last one he invented that he still uses is the Spider-Tracer, which I think is Post-Ditko, but probably from the 70's at the latest.
    Spider-tracers are Ditko, from as early as ASM #11! I think that was why Dan Slott went all in on the new tech angle cause he really hadn't made anything permanent in almost 50 years.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey_62 View Post
    Spider-tracers are Ditko, from as early as ASM #11! I think that was why Dan Slott went all in on the new tech angle cause he really hadn't made anything permanent in almost 50 years.
    One of the cooler aspects of the Scarlet Spider was all his innovations (impact webbing being the best of them). It’s a shame that stuff didn’t stick (no pun intended) when Peter took back the mantle.

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Mephisto is dead ( for now at least) and Quesada is gone ( again for now at least), so it should be easier to get rid of OMD.
    I mean it's all kind of relative. As much as people want to project Quesada as being the "Final Boss" to getting the Spider-Marriage back, I'm pretty sure that behind the scenes there are more heads to the hydra than people are willing to admit lol

    Kevin Feige is steering the ship now, but it was also under him that MCU Peter was made even younger than the previous two adaptations so who's to say he'll turn out to be a proponent of Peter being grown and married in the comics?
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

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