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  1. #91
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Avengers is the only film Whedon has made that is more successful than Snyder's and generally Whedon's movies tend to be flops. He is more than capable of making a bad film on his own as seen with Age of Ultron.
    I have no horse in this race and was actually generally agreeing with you, but it's not true that Avengers is the only thing Whedon ever made that was more successful than Snyder's DC movies. Age of Ultron was a hot mess, but it did way better business at the box office than either Man of Steel or Batman v Superman.

    Again, I agree with your overall point and that it wasn't very good, but this specifically was a comparison that doesn't really hold up.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    They’re not entirely legacies though. The Robins are easily distinguishable and most, if not, all of the GLs are distinguishable too with their own unique names and, in a way, powersets.
    They're absolutely legacies. Being "distinguishable" from the original does not make them not legacies. Nobody is ever gonna mistake Jaime Reyes for Ted Kord or Kamala Khan for Carol Danvers, but they're still legacy heroes.

    In fact, I'd say cases of legacy characters where the new guy is visually indistinguishable from the predecessor and has the exact same powers are rarer than the alternative. Even Ben Reilly, a literal clone of Peter Parker, had a new costume and upgraded web shooters.
    Last edited by Holt; 10-19-2020 at 10:29 AM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    The three established actors you named are neither fading movie or TV stars, though, while the other one is, as you stated, an up-and-comer. Therefore, I stand by my statement.
    Are you claiming that Mark Ruffalo and Chris Evans are fading movie stars? Or are you claiming that they never reached full-fledged movie stardom? In either case, I don’t think it would be the most convincing argument to make given that they just came off of multi-billion dollar film franchises.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    Pretty much, yeah. The reason legacy characters aren't that great is because they are too attached to the character and "mantle". Once they strike it out on their own they become a character in their own right and no longer need that crutch.
    I don’t know if I believe that. Wally West is arguably the most well-developed Flash in terms of character and personality. And he came into his own as a complete legacy character. In fact, it’s part of his appeal and what made the book compelling under Waid.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-19-2020 at 10:31 AM.

  3. #93
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    ??? Are you claiming that Mark Ruffalo and Chris Evans are fading movie stars? Or are you claiming that they never reached full-fledged movie stardom? In either case, I don’t think it would be the most convincing argument to make.
    Huh? I said exactly the opposite of what you just posted.
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  4. #94
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    Ok so then we’re in agreement. These are A-list mega movie star actors doing TV work and not because they’ve lost their clout.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-19-2020 at 10:39 AM.

  5. #95
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    I disagree that Marvel did it better. ppl are reacting to what is coming to fruition streaming-wise and Marvel has just found a purpose for the legacy characters because they are being relegated to Disney+ and more

  6. #96
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    Ok so then we’re in agreement. These are A-list mega movie star actors doing TV work.
    Doing both is okay and has been the case forever. But if they only had one choice between the two, they would take a lead role in a film over anything else due to the higher salary for less effort.
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  7. #97
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    Again, that might’ve been true once upon a time, but not necessarily true anymore. This is the trend the entertainment industry has been headed toward for at least over a decade by now. Either way, let’s just agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-19-2020 at 10:47 AM.

  8. #98
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    To reiterate, again, even if we're making the argument that streaming is an inherently poorer or degrading medium than film, even then it's incorrect to say Marvel's legacy characters are being "relegated" there when, as I've already said twice, Kevin Feige has already confirmed they'll be crossing over into the films as well.

    That's not even noting that Miles Morales already starred in a film and now has a hotly anticipated video game coming out as one of the launch titles for Sony's new PS5.



    The idea that even Marvel knows legacy heroes are bad and thus are intentionally downplaying them by shipping them off to TV and away from the "important" media like movies doesn't really hold up upon inspection.

  9. #99
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    Again, that might’ve been true once upon a time, but not necessarily true anymore. You think the GOT actors wish they’d been in a film instead of signing onto GOT, given that it made them all superstars? This is the trend the entertainment industry has been headed toward for at least over a decade by now. Either way, let’s just agree to disagree.
    If they were given a big enough movie contract, of course they would take it over TV. Again, more money for less effort.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    If they were given a big enough movie contract, of course they would take it over TV. Again, more money for less effort.
    DD, there’s a whole host of reasons why any actor would take on any specific job that you’re not taking into account right now. If you’d like to discuss it, I’d love to have that discussion because it is actually very interesting and I am somewhat knowledgeable about it. But those reasons are way too numerous to get into here and would just detract more from the thread’s main topic.

  11. #101
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    To reiterate, again, even if we're making the argument that streaming is an inherently poorer or degrading medium than film, even then it's incorrect to say Marvel's legacy characters are being "relegated" there when, as I've already said twice, Kevin Feige has already confirmed they'll be crossing over into the films as well.

    That's not even noting that Miles Morales already starred in a film and now has a hotly anticipated video game coming out as one of the launch titles for Sony's new PS5.



    The idea that even Marvel knows legacy heroes are bad and thus are intentionally downplaying them by shipping them off to TV and away from the "important" media like movies doesn't really hold up upon inspection.
    Where are DC's legacy characters of colours?
    Jackson I guess is in YJ
    Wallace is in the TV shows
    Damian is in a game and animated movies
    Emi is still missing in wider media

    I guess DC isn't doing so bad.

  12. #102
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    DD, there’s a whole host of reasons why any actor would take on any specific job that you’re not taking into account right now. If you’d like to discuss it, I’d love to have that discussion because it is actually very interesting and I am somewhat knowledgeable about it. But those reasons are way too numerous to get into here and would just detract more from the thread’s main topic.
    Eh, we probably should just call it a day. It seems we're just spinning our wheels at this point.
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  13. #103
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    To reiterate, again, even if we're making the argument that streaming is an inherently poorer or degrading medium than film, even then it's incorrect to say Marvel's legacy characters are being "relegated" there when, as I've already said twice, Kevin Feige has already confirmed they'll be crossing over into the films as well.

    That's not even noting that Miles Morales already starred in a film and now has a hotly anticipated video game coming out as one of the launch titles for Sony's new PS5.



    The idea that even Marvel knows legacy heroes are bad and thus are intentionally downplaying them by shipping them off to TV and away from the "important" media like movies doesn't really hold up upon inspection.
    You mean just like DC that also has a game coming soon starring legacy characters? Or do they not count because they are related to Batman despite the fact that no one is given a chance in Marvel besides Spider-Man?
    Last edited by Rise; 10-19-2020 at 12:44 PM.
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  14. #104
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    DC's fanbases are far more inherently divisive when it comes to legacy characters
    Look at Barry vs Wally or Wally vs Wallace
    Look at Hal vs Kyle or now Hal vs John
    Look at the Robins, no hell look at the Bat family any character that debuts is instantly hated or dismissed by maybe 6 different fanbases
    Only places I see legacy characters sticking in DC is maybe Wonder Woman or Aquaman
    Anywhere else and the underpinnings of nostalgia will blow up any opportunity to do something original in DC

    In comparison Marvel
    ushers in their legacy characters through a concerted effort and sustained push that doesn't end
    DC tends to get gun shy by all the online hate and fail unlike Marvel

  15. #105
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    You mean just like DC that also has a game coming soon starring legacy characters? Or do they not count because they are related to Batman despite the fact that no one is given a chance in Marvel besides Spider-Man?
    I'm not sure how you got that from anything I was saying. Like at all. I didn't even mention DC in that post. It was in response to a comment that implied that Marvel doesn't care for legacy heroes and is intentionally "relegating" to TV instead of putting them in movies, which, for the reasons I cited, doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

    Especially since if Marvel really disliked legacy heroes or didn't have faith in their viability, they likely wouldn't bother spending money on making expensive streaming shows for them in the first place.

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