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  1. #46
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    Legacy Hero
    A Legacy Hero is a hero who's title, powers or duty to heroism was passed onto him/her by a predessessor. The Legacy Hero is diametrically opposed to the Legacy Villain.
    Description
    A legacy hero is a type of character, usually a superhero, that is the descendant or relative of an already or previously existing hero who either inherits or adopts the name and attributes of the original.

    https://literaryconcept.fandom.com/wiki/Legacy_Hero

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    Actually, for a few years now, streaming shows have started costing about as much as big-budget blockbuster films to produce. The Mandalorian, for example, had an average budget of about $15 million per episode.
    15 million for an hour-long episode is not the same as a 2-3 hour-long big-budget film.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    15 million for an hour-long episode is not the same as a 2-3 hour-long big-budget film.
    But that means that a season consisting of 10 episodes like most streaming shows comes out at least $150 million, easily the same as a blockbuster movie. TV miniseries and seasons nowadays are basically like 6-10 hour films. That's what people in the industry have been saying for years and that's why you see a lot of writers, producers, and actors who made it big in film migrating to television now. TV is now as big a medium as cinema is, both in terms of influence and quality. I mean, Watchmen was basically like one very long movie. Elisabeth Olsen, the actress who plays Scarlet Witch, also said something similar: that WandaVision is basically a 6-hour Marvel movie, but on your television.

    And, while it's not necessarily the same as production, a lot of studios actually now spend more on their Emmys campaigns than they do for their Oscars campaigns, suggesting that they view recognition for television work as more important than recognition for film.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-18-2020 at 10:32 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    But that means that a season consisting of 10 episodes (like most streaming shows) comes out at least $150 million, easily the same as a blockbuster movie. TV miniseries and seasons nowadays are basically like 6-10 hour films. That's what people in the industry have been saying for years.
    Each episode averaged 38 minutes, which translates to a budget about 100 million for the 8-episode season of 300 minutes. A big-budget film, OTOH, will be no longer than 180 minutes, but the budget will be a lot more than 100 million. If a blockbuster film was 300-minutes long, what would you think the budget would run?

    It's just not the same thing.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Each episode averaged 38 minutes, which translates to a budget about 100 million for the 8-episode season of 300 minutes. A big-budget film, OTOH, will be no longer than 180 minutes, but the budget will be a lot more than 100 million. If a blockbuster film was 300-minutes long, what would you think the budget would run?

    It's just not the same thing.
    Television and streaming are the exciting new frontier for entertainment. I just don't think that can be denied at this point. TV budgets are now comparable to film budgets and Disney alone invested over $2.6 billion in the necessary technology to launch Disney+. Popular TV shows are just as talked about in the pop culture zeitgeist as films are. I mean, look at the fandom that surrounded Game of Thrones and Stranger Things and the hype that has been built around WandaVision.

    But, to bring it back to the point we were discussing, I wouldn't say Marvel's legacies are being "relegated" to streaming because it's obvious that Disney itself sees streaming as the future of Hollywood.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-18-2020 at 10:14 AM.

  6. #51
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    I don't know, it's too soon to tell. In the past, Marvel's legacy heroes were not permanent (Ben Reilly, Thunderstrike, Rhodey, USAgent, etc). It's only recently that their legacy heroes have remained in the spotlight and the only people that oppose that were the racist fanboys that didn't want minorities to be headliners.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mace11 View Post
    Jason Todd didn't have the Robin legacy passed on to him by Dick Grayson. Are you going to argue he isn't a legacy hero?

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    Television and streaming are the exciting new frontier for entertainment. I just don't think that can be denied at this point. TV budgets are now comparable to film budgets and Disney alone invested over $2.6 billion in the necessary technology to launch Disney+. Popular TV shows are just as talked about in the pop culture zeitgeist as films are. I mean, look at the fandom that surrounded Game of Thrones and Stranger Things and the hype that has been built around WandaVision.
    When a streamed show costs 500 million to make for a ten-episode season, then TV budgets will be comparable to 100 million dollar films.
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  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Nah, it's comparable. Mandalorian straight up looked like a film at times. It's clear a lot of money is being poured into these new productions. In fact, there's a reason WB then responded in kind by promising their new HBO Max Green Lantern show would have a cinematic budget and be much bigger in scope than the Arrowverse stuff.

    The streaming stuff is not the redheaded stepchild some folks are trying to make it out to be. In fact, it's an especially irrelevant talking point here when Feige already said some of the characters from the Disney+ shows will be showing up in the films as well.

  10. #55
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    If we're talking the new ones then I agree, way better and they get a decent amount of facetime. They aren't perfect by a stretch but they atleast do something.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    This statement only applies to DC who has treated their streaming shows like the low budget CW shows( I love the CW show FYI). Marvel so far has treated their streaming shows better than anything DC has done there is nothing streaming for DC that is quality of Daredevil or Punisher. And the first seasons of Jessica Jones and Luke Cage had moments of brilliance. The point is those shows had far bigger budgets than anything DC universe decide to do. The Disney shows MCU characters are being "relegated" streaming with budgets somewhere between 130 to 200 million.

    Anyways Hbo max is relegating Green Lantern and Batman shows with actual budgets as well. It is mind blowing that some people think that streaming is settling or beneath some characters. I would kill for X-men franchise to put on entirely on streaming and skip being movies. Lets all wish that Marvel is successful with they are doing and we enter a world you can have a TV show and spin out successful Blockbuster movies. It is nice the next Avenger movie won't have to explain who Kamala Khan is because she has her own show. We are living in a world where they could have introduce the Justice League characters as individual premium one shots /series on HBO max and Justice League movie could have been the topper.

    More topic Marvel hasn't done much better job with Legacy characters it is just slight better because we are in age where diversity matters and Marvel lucked out Kamala and Miles. DC best "legacy" characters other than John Stewart,Blue Beetle,Atom and couple others are same exact thing. You have 4 white Robins,You have Wally West and Impulse, You have Konner, Jon and Supergirl,etc. Marvel benefits from the legacy characters in this newer push they have going on are clearly different, It didn't help them couple years back when salty inbred on continuity comic fans complained about it but in this bright beautiful world where corporations care about diversity. Marvel is better place to go here is our black spiderman, Asian ms marvel and hulk, our female hawkeye,Latino Nova. While DC is stuck because the fan favorites aren't the diverse ones Signal might be cool but he stuck behind a bunch of robins, Cass might be cool but she is stuck behind the more popular Barbara.

    Marvel a bunch of first gen legacy characters are diverse , DC first gen side kicks are kinda clones of original characters. In this marketplace it is easier to push different. DC legacies are stuck in original shadows, while Marvel legacies gets a different lane to be pushed in Riri Williams isn't Tony Stark , Miles ain't Peter, Sam ain't Dick Ryder pushing those characters is pushing something different from the original. That is why Marvel is slightly better right now most of legacies they push are clearly different from original.
    Doom Patrol is better than all of those man, so is Stargirl outside of JJ and DD S1.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nontheless):

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  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    DC for many years was stuck on the idea that legacy characters were too confusing for new audiences. Or, at least that was Didio's excuse (conveniently the Robins and Green Lanterns ignored this). It seems obvious by now Dido had an axe to grind with certain characters and used the excuse of legacies alienating people to get his hatchet jobs done.
    This seem similar to the "belief". (If anyone at DC really believed it) that parallel Earths confused readers. We're still suffering from that.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Nah, it's comparable. Mandalorian straight up looked like a film at times. It's clear a lot of money is being poured into these new productions. In fact, there's a reason WB then responded in kind by promising their new HBO Max Green Lantern show would have a cinematic budget and be much bigger in scope than the Arrowverse stuff.

    The streaming stuff is not the redheaded stepchild some folks are trying to make it out to be. In fact, it's an especially irrelevant talking point here when Feige already said some of the characters from the Disney+ shows will be showing up in the films as well.
    I'm not saying it's bad or doesn't have value, but it's still the minors in comparison to the films.

    In the late '60s, there was a show called Land of the Giants (I'm old enough to recall watching it on ABC as a toddler ). Anyway, it was a very expensive show to produce ($250,000 an episode, which was a lot back then). A full season's run cost ABC 6 million, which comfortably put it in the same territory of the biggest-budget films of that time. Having said that, nobody remotely thought it was on the same level as 2001: A Space Odyssey or The Green Berets budget-wise. The movies then and now are the Big Show.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    I'm not saying it's bad or doesn't have value, but it's still the minors in comparison to the films.

    In the late '60s, there was a show called Land of the Giants (I'm old enough to recall watching it on ABC as a toddler ). Anyway, it was a very expensive show to produce ($250,000 an episode, which was a lot back then). A full season's run cost ABC 6 million, which comfortably put it in the same territory of the biggest-budget films of that time. Having said that, nobody remotely thought it was on the same level as 2001: A Space Odyssey or The Green Berets budget-wise. The movies then and now are the Big Show.
    But the numbers from now don't back up that argument. WandaVision cost around $150 million for its production alone. That means that it cost more than Ant-Man & the Wasp, about the same as a lot of other Marvel movies, and about 3/4 the amount that it took to make Infinity War and Endgame. That means that these shows are operating off of big blockbuster budgets. On top of that, apparently, one episode of Stranger Things costs over twice as much to make as it did to film the entirety of the Best Picture-winning film Moonlight.

    So, streaming and television are not "minors." In fact, so many shows are now star-making vehicles and have just as much cultural presence as films. Times have changed. And things will probably be going even further in that direction especially now post-COVID where a lot of people still don't feel safe going to movie theatres.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-18-2020 at 12:27 PM.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    But the numbers from now don't back up that argument. The Mandalorian and WandaVision both cost around $150 million each for their production alone. That means that both those shows cost more than Ant-Man & the Wasp, about the same as a lot of other Marvel movies, and about 3/4 the amount that it took to make Infinity War and Endgame. That means that these shows are operating off of big blockbuster budgets. On top of that, apparently, one episode of Stranger Things costs over twice as much to make as it did to film the entirety of the Best Picture-winning film Moonlight.

    So, streaming and television are not "minors." In fact, so many shows are now star-making vehicles and have just as much cultural presence as films. Times have changed. And things will probably be going even further in that direction especially now post-COVID where a lot of people still don't feel safe going to the movie theatres.
    But it is the same as it was then, because you keep forgetting that the hourly rate for a film's budget dwarfs a streaming one. That's just a fact. As I pointed out before, a program on a streaming service (10 episode) has to have a budget of a half billion to be comparable to just a 100 million dollar movie. I wasn't being flippant when I typed that, but accurate.
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