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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    And why is that? Because there is a far bigger return with a 2-3 hour movie than 2-3 hours of anything on TV or streamed. That is my argument in a nutshell.

    Again, this is not about quality. We're talking about profits and nothing else.
    Not necessarily: Game of Thrones’ final season earned about $525 million for HBO. That is more than the box office returns of both It: Chapter Two and Ant-Man, two big blockbuster film franchises. TV is no longer the small fry of entertainment. TV now earns billions of dollars for the studios involved, just like film does.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Your top movie stars (Dwayne Johnson is not the only one, BTW - #13 for 2020, Will Smith, made 35 million) destroy the top stars of television or streaming on an hourly basis.

    Jessica Chastain isn't a top box office draw, BTW (fine actress, though).
    It still means that TV stars earned a more than comparable amount for the last season of their show to what a famous and acclaimed film actress did for starring in one of the major summer blockbusters of 2019. But we’ll just agree to disagree as I don’t want to keep detailing the thread.

    The main point I was making was, again, that legacy characters getting streaming shows is not a sign of “disinterest” because the lines between TV and film have never been more blurred than they are today.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-19-2020 at 06:16 AM.

  2. #77
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    Never mind
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-19-2020 at 05:54 AM.

  3. #78
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    Not necessarily: Game of Thrones’ final season earned about $525 million for HBO. That is more than the box office returns of both It: Chapter Two and Ant-Man, two big blockbuster film franchises. TV is no longer the small fry of entertainment. TV now earns billions of dollars for the studios involved, just like film does.
    If GoT's final season consisted of 2-3 hours, then you would be right. But it averaged 88 million for each of their six episodes* (based on that same article you just posted), which translates to about 166 million for a two-hour film or 270 million for three hours. Your top films, obviously destroy that.

    * The episodes averaged roughly an hour in length.

    It still means that TV stars earned a more than comparable amount for the last season of their show as a famous and acclaimed film actress did for starring in one of the major summer blockbusters of 2019. But we’ll just agree to disagree as I don’t want to keep detailing the thread.
    For a top TV star to make as much as a top movie star, they have to work a lot more. Do you deny that?

    The main point I was making was, again, that legacy characters getting streaming shows is not a sign of “disinterest” because the lines between TV and film have never been more blurred than they are today.
    I wouldn't use the word "disinterest" myself, but I would say the studios don't feel some of these characters have the box office draw for movies (rightly or wrongly), but believe they can do okay elsewhere.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    And why is that? Because there is a far bigger return with a 2-3 hour movie than 2-3 hours of anything on TV or streamed. That is my argument in a nutshell.

    Again, this is not about quality. We're talking about profits and nothing else.
    The average movie ticket cost is about 9 dollars, Netflix is about 9 dollars,the Disney package deal is 12.99, Hbo max is 14.99. Movie profits have to be split between the company, theater, and the country. 100%(most) of streaming profits go to the company.

    Disney is at 60.5 million subs, lets say a show brings in 1 million subs that's about 12 million right. About 8 million people are estimated to watch Mulan on Disney plus if that was new subs that is about 103 million dollars. If they stay for one month after that's 207 million dollars.

    Obviously, they are some holes in this example, like not every Disney sub is 12 dollars(and they charged 30 dollars for Mulan) but this example general shows the power of one project attracting someone to a streaming service. I can't tell you how many times I have held on to sub for a streaming service a month or two longer than I intended. Also, a streaming movie could mean they have a customer for 12 months.

    Do you go to the movie theater every month? It is a different set of math and the numbers are closer than you think.

    I will bet you that 81 million dollars The Witcher show made more money for Netflix than Antman and most Marvel movies not name Avengers do for the MCU. It had 76 million people view that show the first week. And one way of looking at is at it is that is 76 million customers who got sub or kept sub for one month.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 10-19-2020 at 07:22 AM.

  5. #80
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    To keep things brief, I’m just gonna say that this thinking doesn’t line up with how the industry actually sees things, DD. Again, budgets aren’t broken down by hour. That’s just not how those costs are calculated or negotiated. They are calculated based on the types of services rendered, and a lot of the time, the bulk of cost is actually from advertising and marketing for a specific project.

    And, again, there’s very little difference between “film actor” and “TV actor” because nowadays, many film actors regularly do TV work and vice versa. Again, Dwayne Johnson, Meryl Streep, Adam Sandler, Hugh Jackman, Mark Ruffalo, Chris Evans, Reese Witherspoon, etc. are all doing TV series now. And like we said, Disney has invested a lot into launching Disney+, and it’s a very good investment on their part.

    And, bringing it back to what we were discussing, Daredevil, Swamp Thing, Green Lantern, etc. all got movies in the past and are now getting (or got) TV series on streaming platforms. So it’s obvious that there’s not much difference between what’s considered a “TV property” and what’s considered a “film property” today.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-19-2020 at 07:25 AM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    (conveniently the Robins and Green Lanterns ignored this)
    Theyíre not entirely legacies though. The Robins are easily distinguishable and most, if not, all of the GLs are distinguishable too with their own unique names and, in a way, powersets.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    They’re not entirely legacies though. The Robins are easily distinguishable and most, if not, all of the GLs are distinguishable too with their own unique names and, in a way, powersets.
    But is a legacy character no longer a legacy character because they happen to be distinguishable? They’re still a part of the larger legacy. Tim Drake and Damian Wayne may be entirely different characters in terms of personality, but they were both still Robin.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post

    Whedon, who had to work from Snyder's material to begin with.

    If Whedon got to create his own JL film from scratch and then failed, you would have a point. Let's keep in mind that Whedon made The Avengers, which is far more successful than any film Snyder has done.

    Not only that, part of the reason why Whedon's JL flopped was because of the bad will generated by BvS. A lot of people felt burned by BvS and weren't going to turn out for its direct sequel.
    The Avengers is the only film Whedon has made that is more successful than Snyder's and generally Whedon's movies tend to be flops. He is more than capable of making a bad film on his own as seen with Age of Ultron.



    You're welcome you're interpretations.
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    This is a strawman argument.
    So you didn't claim that the GL show not having any of the more well known GLs was proof that streaming was inferior?
    Last edited by Agent Z; 10-19-2020 at 08:03 AM.

  9. #84
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    And, again, there’s very little difference between “film actor” and “TV actor” because nowadays, many film actors regularly do TV work and vice versa. Again, Dwayne Johnson, Meryl Streep, Adam Sandler, Hugh Jackman, Mark Ruffalo, Chris Evans, Reese Witherspoon, etc. are all doing TV series now. And like we said, Disney has invested a lot into launching Disney+, and it’s a very good investment on their part.
    Where do top movie stars go when they start to lose their clout at the box office? TV.

    Where do top TV stars go when they start to lose their clout with their audiences? Community theater?

    Always has been and is still the case today.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Where do top movie stars go when they start to lose their clout at the box office? TV.

    Where do top TV stars go when they start to lose their clout with their audiences? Community theater?

    Always has been and is still the case today.
    No, itís not. A lot of these actors are still in major blockbuster films. You literally were referring to the Rock as the highest-paid actor in Hollywood. Mark Ruffalo was just in Infinity War and Endgame and now just won an Emmy for his role in an HBO miniseries. Chris Evans also just came off the MCU and Knives Out and followed that up with an Apple TV miniseries. Zendaya, who by all accounts is an up-and-comer and is only 24, just won her own Emmy for an HBO series that she stars in. And sheís also in the MCU. The assumptions youíre bringing to the table just arenít true anymore. Times and the entertainment industry have changed.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-19-2020 at 08:54 AM.

  11. #86
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    No, itís not. A lot of these actors are still in major blockbuster films. You literally were referring to the Rock as the highest-paid actor in Hollywood. Mark Ruffalo was just in Infinity War and Endgame and now just won an Emmy for his role in an HBO miniseries. Chris Evans also just came off the MCU and Knives Out and followed that up with an Apple TV miniseries. Zendaya, who by all accounts is an up-and-comer and is only 24, just won her own Emmy for an HBO series that she stars in. And sheís also in the MCU. The assumptions youíre bringing to the table just arenít true anymore. Times and the entertainment industry have changed.
    The three established actors you named are neither fading movie or TV stars, though, while the other one is, as you stated, an up-and-comer. Therefore, I stand by my statement.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
    Whedon, who had to work from Snyder's material to begin with.

    If Whedon got to create his own JL film from scratch and then failed, you would have a point. Let's keep in mind that Whedon made The Avengers, which is far more successful than any film Snyder has done.

    Not only that, part of the reason why Whedon's JL flopped was because of the bad will generated by BvS. A lot of people felt burned by BvS and weren't going to turn out for its direct sequel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Avengers is the only film Whedon has made that is more successful than Snyder's and generally Whedon's movies tend to be flops. He is more than capable of making a bad film on his own as seen with Age of Ultron.
    Age of Ultron may be underwhelming/forgettable, but it did not achieve the modern Batman & Robin level bad status for modern superhero films the way BvS did.

    Due to its clear association with BvS, JL was very likely not going to do that well regardless. Most of the casuals who saw it weren't keeping tabs of the behind the scenes stuff the way we do so it's not like they were boycotting due to a creative change. Whedon definitely would have made a better movie if he had full control from start to finish. That said, he isn't a guarantee of quality himself. At best, even a movie that was 100% his may not have been any better than just "ok."

    Frankly, we could do better than either one of them.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    But is a legacy character no longer a legacy character because they happen to be distinguishable?
    Pretty much, yeah. The reason legacy characters aren't that great is because they are too attached to the character and "mantle". Once they strike it out on their own they become a character in their own right and no longer need that crutch.

  14. #89
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    While I donít think streaming and tv has gotten to the highest end of the big Blockbuster films quite yet, the gap is closing. And now with COVID, that gap is probably only going to get smaller.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    While I don’t think streaming and tv has gotten to the highest end of the big Blockbuster films quite yet, the gap is closing. And now with COVID, that gap is probably only going to get smaller.
    Now that I can go along with.
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