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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
    I will say that it is telling that the upcoming MCU legacy characters we are getting are being relegated to Streaming.
    You mean like The Mandalorian, one of the most talked about shows of last year? Nothing is being "relegated" to streaming; these are all expensive projects designed to boost viewership of the streaming service.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
    I will say that it is telling that the upcoming MCU legacy characters we are getting are being relegated to Streaming.
    So is Star Girl lesser for being a stream show? She is a legacy.

    Or is the Snyder Cult film any lesser because it's being streamed?

    Maybe the reason so many are going to streaming is because it's a better option.


    Meanwhile at DC/WB and the DC forums, crying about who is chosen every step of the way, complaining with every character choice, we have no idea how to build our universe or who our lead characters are....
    Because DC was run by fanboys with agendas. Who have fueled many of these fan wars.

    A lot of those Marvel folks got development in comics without agendas.
    As well as being showcased in BOTH comics and outside media.
    The 3 DC cash cows were the same.

    Rhodey has been in everything Iron Man since 1993. I don't have to worry about him or Pepper NOT being around Tony.
    Miles, Gwen and Venom will be around Peter Parker is some form outside of comics.
    Falcon same with Cap America.
    It's not IF but when with most of those folks.

    DC-crap shoot.
    Teen Titans or Titans on tv or stream matches the comic version right now.
    We won't even touch Green Lantern as it heads down the road to toxic franchise. The tv side did not create 10 Earth Lanterns. The comic side can't help the fact the popular one from a tv show is the most HATED one in comics.
    Whose fault is it Luke Fox is a hero in comics but a geek on Batwoman?
    How many DC shows right not feature folks who are MIA in comics? Tv and stream can find a use for Jaime Reyes. The comics can't.

  3. #33
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
    I will say that it is telling that the upcoming MCU legacy characters we are getting are being relegated to Streaming.
    This statement only applies to DC who has treated their streaming shows like the low budget CW shows( I love the CW show FYI). Marvel so far has treated their streaming shows better than anything DC has done there is nothing streaming for DC that is quality of Daredevil or Punisher. And the first seasons of Jessica Jones and Luke Cage had moments of brilliance. The point is those shows had far bigger budgets than anything DC universe decide to do. The Disney shows MCU characters are being "relegated" streaming with budgets somewhere between 130 to 200 million.

    Anyways Hbo max is relegating Green Lantern and Batman shows with actual budgets as well. It is mind blowing that some people think that streaming is settling or beneath some characters. I would kill for X-men franchise to put on entirely on streaming and skip being movies. Lets all wish that Marvel is successful with they are doing and we enter a world you can have a TV show and spin out successful Blockbuster movies. It is nice the next Avenger movie won't have to explain who Kamala Khan is because she has her own show. We are living in a world where they could have introduce the Justice League characters as individual premium one shots /series on HBO max and Justice League movie could have been the topper.

    More topic Marvel hasn't done much better job with Legacy characters it is just slight better because we are in age where diversity matters and Marvel lucked out Kamala and Miles. DC best "legacy" characters other than John Stewart,Blue Beetle,Atom and couple others are same exact thing. You have 4 white Robins,You have Wally West and Impulse, You have Konner, Jon and Supergirl,etc. Marvel benefits from the legacy characters in this newer push they have going on are clearly different, It didn't help them couple years back when salty inbred on continuity comic fans complained about it but in this bright beautiful world where corporations care about diversity. Marvel is better place to go here is our black spiderman, Asian ms marvel and hulk, our female hawkeye,Latino Nova. While DC is stuck because the fan favorites aren't the diverse ones Signal might be cool but he stuck behind a bunch of robins, Cass might be cool but she is stuck behind the more popular Barbara.

    Marvel a bunch of first gen legacy characters are diverse , DC first gen side kicks are kinda clones of original characters. In this marketplace it is easier to push different. DC legacies are stuck in original shadows, while Marvel legacies gets a different lane to be pushed in Riri Williams isn't Tony Stark , Miles ain't Peter, Sam ain't Dick Ryder pushing those characters is pushing something different from the original. That is why Marvel is slightly better right now most of legacies they push are clearly different from original.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 10-18-2020 at 12:28 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Ben Reilly, Anya Corazon, Phil Urich, Angela del Toro, Monica Rambeau, Brother Voodoo, Flash Thompson and James Rhodes say hi. Marvel is not without it's own sins when it comes to legacy characters and DC's are only fairly recent.
    Doctor voodoo is not legacy character and he was never called doctor strange and monica did not get her name from the original captain marvel from what i heard.
    She never named her self captain marvel.
    The thing just called her that and her powers are different.

    So she is not legacy character plus she had name changes over time.
    Last edited by mace11; 10-17-2020 at 11:41 PM.

  5. #35
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    Nick Fury (Legacy
    Is the ultimate version and mcu version of nick fury a legacy?
    No.
    The mcu version of nick fury is based on the ultimate version of marvel comics,not nick fury jr. from the 616 marvel universe who is the son of the original nick fury.
    Nick fury jr came later after the mcu version of nick fury.

    For me, the Legacy characters were always the original sidekicks in the Teen Titans, Dick, Wally, Roy, Donna, Garth, and unless you plan to replace the original hero or transform them into an original hero there is not much you can do with them.
    This.
    Having the same mantle does not make someone a legacy.
    If that's the case then luke cage would be a legacy of the original power man Erik Josten.
    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Man

    So clearly luke cage is not a legacy character even if someone had the powerman name before him and inuniverse.
    Plus their powers are different.
    There are some similarities of course like super strength but the source of their powers are different and luke cage was never his sidekick.

    Another example there was character name blue marvel(Thelius)that came out in 90's before Adam Brashear blue marvel,but adam has nothing to with with that version of blue marvel and they never met.
    Plus in universe blue marvel had the name first and was a superhero before him even if blue marvel was created later then him.

    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Marvel
    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Theli...el)_(Earth-616)
    Last edited by mace11; 10-18-2020 at 12:13 AM.

  6. #36
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    I mean, streaming is pretty much the future of entertainment. And there's little difference nowadays between film and television in Hollywood.
    Other than the budgets and expected profits, that is.
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  7. #37
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    What's infuriating is that like someone said on the first page, DC has the better legacy dynasty. They used to rise from sidekick positions so people had personal attachments to them, it allowed for a wholesome storytelling. Then Didio found it too "toxic" to sell to mainstream, which is bullshit considering you have many movies & novels based on legacy structure without the need to explain the previous holder.

    Now DC woke up to the idea again because all the storytelling ideas are already beaten to be used by Marvel effectively on big screen. They are running late on introducing legacy to mainstream too.

    Some characters changed because they ran their course. Barry Allen just had an arc reliving him of the "dead mom" trauma but now we are back to talking about how "Flash ring is made for his poor momma and daddy" again, because Barry is such a bland, boring character that he has nothing else going for him.

  8. #38
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    They just can't get it right can they? spoilers:
    Melting down his parents wedding rings... seriously?
    end of spoilers

    The Arrowverse version had a couple of major gaffes too - Jesse Quick was from Earth-2 - causing her to be permanently erased in an ARROW episode last year in the lead up to Crisis. That means they can never use her again - the comics version isn't from an alternate universe, so there's no excuse for that. And there's a big elephant in the room they never mention - Joe raised Barry after his father went to jail falsely accused of killing his mother. That made Iris - who's now his wife - his adopted sister! He does call Wally a brother, but never calls Iris a sister. They've been brought up together since they were in elementary school. They're not blood related, but it's still basically an incestuous relationship. If Joe officially adopted Barry, his marriage to Iris shouldn't be legal. The comics don't have this problem as Barry and Iris didn't know each other as kids and someone else took Barry in instead of her father.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Other than the budgets and expected profits, that is.
    Actually, for a few years now, streaming shows have started costing about as much as big-budget blockbuster films to produce. The Mandalorian, for example, had an average budget of about $15 million per episode.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    The amount of people pissed about the double standard would have been nothing compared to the amount of people pissed over the loss of Nightwing, Red Hood, Tim Drake, and Damian. They didn't keep the Robins cause they were boys and the Batgirls were girls. They kept the Robin because it gave them 4 books to sell. Cass and Steph weren't in that position.
    Cass's book sold better than many of the books DiDio kept around when it was cancelled. I don't any of the Robin/Robin-led New 52 books were selling that well and the overall poor reception to them certainly didn't seem worth it.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Cass's book sold better than many of the books DiDio kept around when it was cancelled. I don't any of the Robin/Robin-led New 52 books were selling that well and the overall poor reception to them certainly didn't seem worth it.
    Grading on a curve, 20 years ago. Cass' marketability only went downhill from there. To the point they replaced her, and she was pretty much already on the outs well before the New 52. The Robin/Robin-led New 52 books were all much safer bets then many of DC's characters in general, and remain staples to this day.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 10-18-2020 at 07:26 AM.

  12. #42
    Mighty Member Thor2014's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    They just can't get it right can they? spoilers:
    Melting down his parents wedding rings... seriously?
    end of spoilers

    The Arrowverse version had a couple of major gaffes too - Jesse Quick was from Earth-2 - causing her to be permanently erased in an ARROW episode last year in the lead up to Crisis. That means they can never use her again - the comics version isn't from an alternate universe, so there's no excuse for that. And there's a big elephant in the room they never mention - Joe raised Barry after his father went to jail falsely accused of killing his mother. That made Iris - who's now his wife - his adopted sister! He does call Wally a brother, but never calls Iris a sister. They've been brought up together since they were in elementary school. They're not blood related, but it's still basically an incestuous relationship. If Joe officially adopted Barry, his marriage to Iris shouldn't be legal. The comics don't have this problem as Barry and Iris didn't know each other as kids and someone else took Barry in instead of her father.
    A revised Jessie Quick could easily exist on CW Clutter Earth.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    there is nothing streaming for DC that is quality of Daredevil or Punisher.
    Doom Patrol and Stargirl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Grading on a curve, 20 years ago. Cass' marketability only went downhill from there. To the point they replaced her, and she was pretty much already on the outs, well before the New 52. The Robin/Robin-led New 52 books were all much safer bets then many of DC's characters in general, and remain staples to this day.
    They did not replace her because her marketability went down.

    Quote Originally Posted by mace11 View Post
    Doctor voodoo is not legacy character and he was never called doctor strange and monica did not get her name from the original captain marvel from what i heard.
    She never named her self captain marvel.
    The thing just called her that and her powers are different.

    So she is not legacy character plus she had name changes over time.
    Voodoo was Strange's successor as Sorcerer Supreme. Monica called herself Captain Marvel after Thing gave her that name. She was a legacy character and her powers being different didn't change that.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 10-18-2020 at 07:28 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Voodoo was Strange's successor as Sorcerer Supreme. Monica called herself Captain Marvel after Thing gave her that name. She was a legacy character and her powers being different didn't change that.
    Doctor voodoo and monica are not legacy characters.


    Doctor voodoo was and is a original character before he took that title Sorcerer Supreme plus he was never called doctor strange and his power source is different and he has never started out as a side kick.
    Monica getting that name has nothing to do with the first captain marvel and she was never his side kick,so i don't consider her a legacy either just like i do not consider barry or hal legacy characters even if they were not the first to have those titles.

    Here is the true definition.

    How do you describe a legacy?
    1 : a gift by will especially of money or other personal property : bequest She left us a legacy of a million dollars. 2 : something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past the legacy of the ancient philosophers The war left a legacy of pain and suffering.
    Carol and war machine are legacy,doctor voodoo and monica are not.
    I have not kept with doctor voodoo but i don't think he is currently Sorcerer Supreme anyway.
    I could be wrong however but that still does not make a legacy.
    He is a original character.

    Falcon became captain america but he is a original character and became falcon again anyway.
    So you argue he became a legacy when he became captain america because it was passed on to him and he accepted it even if he is a original character but once he because falcon again,he stop being a legacy.
    James Rhodes as iron man was a legacy but you you could say as war machine not anymore

    To be a legacy the character has to have something do with the previous character like being a partner,side kick or be inspired and to copy the mantle like kamala for example.

    Note-correction.
    James Rhodes as iron man was a legacy but you could say when became war machine not anymore.
    Last edited by mace11; 10-19-2020 at 03:40 AM.

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    They were also going to focus on Batgirl recovering from the Killing Joke which implies enough of a time lapse to where Dick probably would be expected to be Nightwing and they'd keep Jason's death too.
    It would have been better not to bog Batgirl down with TKJ or Oracle stuff, creating an unsatisfying middle ground.

    If it's gonna be a reboot, it needs to be a clean break. They never seem to learn this very simple lesson. If they can't do that, don't reboot.

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