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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    But it is the same as it was then, because you keep forgetting that the hourly rate for a film's budget dwarfs a streaming one. That's just a fact. As I pointed out before, a program on a streaming service (10 episode) has to have a budget of a half billion to be comparable to just a 100 million dollar movie. I wasn't being flippant when I typed that, but accurate.
    Film and TV budgets aren't broken down by hour. They're broken down by the different services and costs associated with the project, including their advertising and distribution costs.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-18-2020 at 12:39 PM.

  2. #62
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    In the late '60s
    We're not talking the late 60s. That's the point. The idea of TV being the dumber kid brother of movies is one that has quickly become dated in our present reality when streaming has increasingly dominated the landscape. Even Disney, the major power player behind the highly successful MCU movies, announced a major reorganization to focus more of their output on streaming going forward.
    https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/10/1...y-company.html

    So the implied argument that was being made, that the legacy heroes are somehow lesser since they'll be leading streaming shows rather than starring in movies, doesn't work in this context. Especially, when as already said, some of them will be crossing over into the movies anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy Hausler View Post
    This seem similar to the "belief". (If anyone at DC really believed it) that parallel Earths confused readers. We're still suffering from that.
    Indeed. It seems that ironically, many of these attempts to "streamline" continuity usually just end up creating a whole host of new problems.
    Last edited by Holt; 10-18-2020 at 12:42 PM.

  3. #63
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    Film and TV budgets aren't broken down by hour. They're broken down by the different services and costs associated with the project, including their advertising and distribution costs.
    Look, there's a reason why movie actors make a lot more money than TV actors on an hourly rate - it's just a bigger deal.

    Since you probably still won't agree, I'll bow out now.
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  4. #64
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    To bring it back on topic...

    Supergirl, Batgirl, Huntress and Power Girl were all pretty popular. Legion, New Teen Titans, Outsiders and Infinity Inc were DC's top sellers.
    Then Crisis happened and DC shot themselves in the foot to accommodate Byrne and Miller.
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  5. #65
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    To bring it back on topic...

    Supergirl, Batgirl, Huntress and Power Girl were all pretty popular. Legion, New Teen Titans, Outsiders and Infinity Inc were DC's top sellers.
    Then Crisis happened and DC shot themselves in the foot to accommodate Byrne and Miller.
    Yeah, people forget legacy was very much alive and well before the DCU ever existed.
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  6. #66
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Legacy characters are bad regardless. Unless they’re the children of the hero in question, and even then barely.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    I mean, streaming is pretty much the future of entertainment. And there's little difference nowadays between film and television in Hollywood.
    Streaming is not on the same level as film.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    So is Star Girl lesser for being a stream show? She is a legacy.

    Or is the Snyder Cult film any lesser because it's being streamed?
    Um...yes. Yes, I'd say they are.

    And mentioning Snyder doesn't help your case, since part of the reason that his cut will be on streaming is due to his general failure in building the DCEU franchise. Had his take on DC heroes actually been a success, we would've seen his cut three years ago...in a movie theater.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Maybe the reason so many are going to streaming is because it's a better option.
    Yeah, its a better option...for when you have a character you're hesitant to give a theatrical release to, or have second tier characters you want to use to supplement the theatrical releases, or when you have a character that failed when they had a theatrical release.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post

    Anyways Hbo max is relegating Green Lantern and Batman shows with actual budgets as well
    You mean the GL show that doesn't have the most well known GL's as leading characters, or the Batman show that's a tie in to the movie franchise and doesn't have Batman starring in it? This only proves my point.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
    Streaming is not on the same level as film.
    It's a different medium. There is nothing about film that is inherently superior to streaming.

    Um...yes. Yes, I'd say they are.

    And mentioning Snyder doesn't help your case, since part of the reason that his cut will be on streaming is due to his general failure in building the DCEU franchise. Had his take on DC heroes actually been a success, we would've seen his cut three years ago...in a movie theater.
    His take was a bigger success than Whedon's.

    Yeah, its a better option...for when you have a character you're hesitant to give a theatrical release to, or have second tier characters you want to use to supplement the theatrical releases, or when you have a character that failed when they had a theatrical release.
    Or maybe because the type of storytelling you want works better with streaming or have seen that streaming can pull in profits or when the theatre isn't an option due to an outbreak.

    This is your projecting of why you think these characters are on streaming shows not any actual reality.



    You mean the GL show that doesn't have the most well known GL's as leading characters, or the Batman show that's a tie in to the movie franchise and doesn't have Batman starring in it? This only proves my point.
    The very first successful movie based on a Marvel character was Blade, a character whom even most comic fans didn't care about and whom the general public was unaware of until his movie. The MCU was built on using characters that most people did not know. The GL show not having any of the well known GLs in it doesn't prove anything about its quality. Especially when it hasn't even come out yet.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Look, there's a reason why movie actors make a lot more money than TV actors on an hourly rate - it's just a bigger deal.

    Since you probably still won't agree, I'll bow out now.
    Agree to disagree, but it's worth noting that the big TV shows now pay their lead actors hundreds of thousands of dollars an episode, coming out to millions of dollars a season and rivaling a lot of big film salaries. The GOT actors, for example, got $500,000 per episode.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
    Streaming is not on the same level as film.
    Well, again, Disney and a lot of other big movie studios are throwing a lot of capital into launching their own platforms and creating original content for them. Like, billions of dollars of investment.

    So, to bring it back to the subject at hand, the idea that She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel are considered "lesser legacy characters" by Disney because they're getting TV shows instead of films isn't reflective of the trends that have been happening in the entertainment industry for years now.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-18-2020 at 03:21 PM.

  10. #70
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    Agree to disagree, but it's worth noting that the big TV shows now pay their lead actors hundreds of thousands of dollars an episode, coming out to millions of dollars a season and rivaling a lot of big film salaries. The GOT actors, for example, got $500,000 per episode.
    Okay, I have to jump in one more time: Dwayne Johnson can get $500,000 for 2-4 minutes of one of his films.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Okay, I have to jump in one more time: The Rock can get $500,000 for 2-4 minutes of one of his films.
    That's the Rock: the highest-paid actor in Hollywood (who also has his own HBO series). Compare those salaries to someone like Jessica Chastain, who is also a huge film star and an Oscar nominee. The GOT actors made $5 million each for the last season of GOT. Chastain made $2.5 million in 2019 for It: Chapter Two, another big blockbuster film from the same studio.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 10-18-2020 at 03:35 PM.

  12. #72
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    That's the Rock: the highest-paid actor in Hollywood (who also has his own HBO series). Compare those salaries to someone like Jessica Chastain, who is also a huge film star and an Oscar nominee. The GOT actors made $5 million each for the last season of GOT. Chastain made $2.5 million in 2019 for It: Chapter Two, another big blockbuster film from the same studio.
    Your top movie stars (Dwayne Johnson is not the only one, BTW - #13 for 2020, Will Smith, made 35 million) destroy the top stars of television or streaming on an hourly basis.

    Jessica Chastain isn't a top box office draw, BTW (fine actress, though).
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post

    Um...yes. Yes, I'd say they are.
    Ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    His take was a bigger success than Whedon's.
    Whedon, who had to work from Snyder's material to begin with.

    If Whedon got to create his own JL film from scratch and then failed, you would have a point. Let's keep in mind that Whedon made The Avengers, which is far more successful than any film Snyder has done.

    Not only that, part of the reason why Whedon's JL flopped was because of the bad will generated by BvS. A lot of people felt burned by BvS and weren't going to turn out for its direct sequel.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post

    This is your projecting of why you think these characters are on streaming shows not any actual reality.
    You're welcome you're interpretations. Green Goblin is the only poster who has responded to me with anything that's rooted in "actual reality".



    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The GL show not having any of the well known GLs in it doesn't prove anything about its quality.
    This is a strawman argument.

  14. #74
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    But it is the same as it was then, because you keep forgetting that the hourly rate for a film's budget dwarfs a streaming one. That's just a fact. As I pointed out before, a program on a streaming service (10 episode) has to have a budget of a half billion to be comparable to just a 100 million dollar movie. I wasn't being flippant when I typed that, but accurate.
    I am sorry but you are wrong in some ways, A 100 million movie is more expensive than TV show because of cgi, location cost and quality of costumes(plus the cost of actors). There is zero difference today between premium streaming tv show and movies in theater. A lot of streaming shows( and premium cable) shows are different monsters than tv shows. Game of Thrones average 15 million dollars per show the final season. That's is 90 million for 6 episodes. The Crown on netflix cost 130 million for season for a show with no real CGI, Band of Brothers was 12 million per episode, The Get Down 11 million per episode(because of music rights). For contrast is Flash cost about 70 million per season,basically 3 million per most episodes. An average tv show cost is 3 to 7 million per episode.

    Apple TV spent 15 million dollars per episode for show(See) with Jason Moama I am sure most people here have never seen or heard about and you can go look how much other shows on apple tv cost it is pretty stupid. Disney spent about 15 million per episodes on the Mandolarian and their MCU shows budgets can reach up 200 million. And the big whopper of them all is Lotor Amazon show(they bought rights for 200 million) is said to have 1 billion dollar budget for the streaming show( two season are green-lighted). There is reason why all these companies are spending movie level funding on streaming shows, You have to attract subs which means exclusive content that nobody else can get and that means the early big time shows will get ridiculous budgets. It is a battle between these guys are we as consumers are winning.

    Big Bang Theory cost 9 million per episode , Friends cost 10 million per episode,ER cost 13 million per episode. Why? because Stars redo their deals and they have to pay them. The Friends cast the main 6 where getting paid at least 1 million per show,and the last season of the show had 18 episodes. No studio wants to pay TV actors that amount of money and it is unsustainable to pay that much for network show , so going the Rock get paid more to TV stars isn't completely correct when TV stars start to make what the Rock makes they have to end the show. It is an actual tactic to end a show and do a spin off just so they can get the cost down a show goes a certain amount of years actors/crew start to get more guarantees.

    Lastly DC universe shows where running on a TV network budgets which is why Cyborg was running around in a track suit with a mask that look like it was stuck to his face like glue. And since streaming don't have to direct release date like shows the CGI can be polished. Half the reason Flash CGI and other tv shows don't look as good movies because they are rushed to meet a hard deadline and they cut corner Some new streaming shows have budgets that put some movies to shame. Some of streaming shows are 8 to 10 episode movies.Anyways enough taking the topic off track you guys can look up the numbers for yourself, I am pretty excited for Titans and Doom Patrol on HBO Max if they survive their quality will be greatly improved.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 10-19-2020 at 02:10 AM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I am sorry but you are wrong in some ways, A 100 million movie is more expensive than TV show because of cgi, location cost and quality of costumes(plus the cost of actors).
    And why is that? Because there is a far bigger return with a 2-3 hour movie than 2-3 hours of anything on TV or streamed. That is my argument in a nutshell.

    Again, this is not about quality. We're talking about profits and nothing else.
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