Page 8 of 21 FirstFirst ... 45678910111218 ... LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 304
  1. #106
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    1,415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    I'm not sure how you got that from anything I was saying. Like at all. I didn't even mention DC in that post. It was in response to a comment that implied that Marvel doesn't care for legacy heroes and is intentionally "relegating" to TV instead of putting them in movies, which, for the reasons I cited, doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

    Especially since if Marvel really disliked legacy heroes or didn't have faith in their viability, they likely wouldn't bother spending money on making expensive streaming shows for them in the first place.
    You made it look like it was such big deal despite the fact that the marvel doesn't actually have anything to do with it. They also didn't do it because they have "faith" in them (the fact that they chose Miles who carrry the Spider-Man name make it clear that they don't), they did it to get diversity points.

    You also make it looks like Marvel have gazillion legacy shows for Disney+. I mean, they have what? Two shows? Ms Marvel (who is the biggest and one of the only two successful legacy characters Marvel has) and Hawkeye. They actually playing it incredibly safe and not taking risk at all.
    Last edited by Rise; 10-19-2020 at 02:11 PM.
    “Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self-control to be understanding and forgiving.”
    – Dale Carnegie

  2. #107
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    36,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    To reiterate, again, even if we're making the argument that streaming is an inherently poorer or degrading medium than film, even then it's incorrect to say Marvel's legacy characters are being "relegated" there when, as I've already said twice, Kevin Feige has already confirmed they'll be crossing over into the films as well.

    That's not even noting that Miles Morales already starred in a film and now has a hotly anticipated video game coming out as one of the launch titles for Sony's new PS5.



    The idea that even Marvel knows legacy heroes are bad and thus are intentionally downplaying them by shipping them off to TV and away from the "important" media like movies doesn't really hold up upon inspection.
    "Includes Spider-Man Remastered" - huh, didn't know they were going to bundle in a port of the PS4 Spider-Man game.
    Appreciation Thread Indexes
    Marvel | Spider-Man | X-Men | NEW!! DC Comics | Batman | Superman | Wonder Woman

  3. #108
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    10,054

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    You made it look like it was such big deal
    Because it is. The idea that Marvel has zero hand in any of these projects or doesn't promote the characters is silly.

    You also make it looks like Marvel have gazillion legacy shows for Disney+.
    Again, you're reading into **** that wasn't actually said for reasons I'm not quite sure of. You seem to have a bit of an axe to grind, so I'm just gonna add you to Ignore for now.
    Last edited by Holt; 10-19-2020 at 03:34 PM.

  4. #109
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    15,236

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Where do top movie stars go when they start to lose their clout at the box office? TV.

    Where do top TV stars go when they start to lose their clout with their audiences? Community theater?

    Always has been and is still the case today.
    Some of those folks never lost their clout.

    Some just had doors slammed in their faces with what was being offered to them in terms of movies. Bill Bellamy vanished from movies not because he lost clout-he was fed up with what was being offered to him. He did How to be a Player and only got offers to play some variant of that offensive lead.

    Some have gotten better deals-see Adam Sandler and Marlon Wayans on Netflix.

    Some have production companies-Viola Davis, Jason Mona, The Rock, Regina King, Michael B Jordan and others. Where they are not taking less money but getting more because they are being more active behind the scenes. To get to the point where Tyler Perry is-who doesn't need anyone in order to be allowed to make a film or show.


    Where are DC's legacy characters of colours?
    Jackson I guess is in YJ
    Wallace is in the TV shows
    Damian is in a game and animated movies
    Emi is still missing in wider media
    I think the issue is why can't Dc's legacies be where Miles Morales is at. Miles is where he is at and it was NOT Peter's expense (well the main version of Peter).
    Spider-Man fans are getting to eat their cake and keep their toys.
    If you don't like Peter you got Miles, Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Miguel, Jessica Drew, Ham, Noir, Punk and who knows whose else will come by. Not to mention Morbius, Black Cat, Rocket Racer, Silver Sable, Dr Oct and the rest.

    Meanwhile at Dc as Nite-Wing pointed out-it's a marking of territories here.

    DC's fanbases are far more inherently divisive when it comes to legacy characters
    Look at Barry vs Wally or Wally vs Wallace
    Look at Hal vs Kyle or now Hal vs John
    Look at the Robins, no hell look at the Bat family any character that debuts is instantly hated or dismissed by maybe 6 different fanbases

    Only places I see legacy characters sticking in DC is maybe Wonder Woman or Aquaman
    Anywhere else and the underpinnings of nostalgia will blow up any opportunity to do something original in DC
    Duke Thomas says HI. And the way the writers treat him they don't care for him either.

  5. #110
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    342

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Avengers is the only film Whedon has made that is more successful than Snyder's and generally Whedon's movies tend to be flops. He is more than capable of making a bad film on his own as seen with Age of Ultron.
    Age of Ultron is more successful than Snyder's movies as well. It's telling that even as bad as you claim Age of Ultron to be, it still made more money than any Snyder movie, and got better reviews than most of Snyders films, the exception being his Dawn of the Dead remake.

    And from what I can tell, Whedon has only directed 4 movies, and finished work on another one. The only confirmed bomb he 100% directed was Serenity. "Much Ado About Nothing" was a small budget film with limited release, and since no one knows the actual budget for that film, I don't see how that can be considered a flop. For all we know, it actually made profit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    So you didn't claim that the GL show not having any of the more well known GLs was proof that streaming was inferior?
    You said "The GL show not having any of the well known GLs in it doesn't prove anything about its quality."

    I didn't say anything about the quality of the show.

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    3,621

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    They're absolutely legacies. Being "distinguishable" from the original does not make them not legacies. Nobody is ever gonna mistake Jaime Reyes for Ted Kord or Kamala Khan for Carol Danvers, but they're still legacy heroes.

    In fact, I'd say cases of legacy characters where the new guy is visually indistinguishable from the predecessor and has the exact same powers are rarer than the alternative. Even Ben Reilly, a literal clone of Peter Parker, had a new costume and upgraded web shooters.
    Nobody said "visually" indistinguishable. You shoehorned that in to make whatever point you think you're making here.
    They started out as legacies, but the purpose of the character is to move beyond that and become something themselves, something that they did on their own. That's why they're not legacies anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    Wally West is arguably the most well-developed Flash in terms of character and personality
    Yeah. Very arguably.

  7. #112
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    10,054

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    Nobody said "visually" indistinguishable. You shoehorned that in to make whatever point you think you're making here.
    Nope. You can take that away and what I said still applies. The argument is essentially "Legacy characters don't work; except for the ones I personally like or who have worked, in which case, they're not actually legacy characters."

    The various Robins and Green Lanterns are legacy characters.

  8. #113
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    11,844

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    "Includes Spider-Man Remastered" - huh, didn't know they were going to bundle in a port of the PS4 Spider-Man game.
    The Miles stuff is an expansion.

  9. #114
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Manchester UK
    Posts
    4,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post

    I think the issue is why can't Dc's legacies be where Miles Morales is at. Miles is where he is at and it was NOT Peter's expense (well the main version of Peter).
    Spider-Man fans are getting to eat their cake and keep their toys.
    If you don't like Peter you got Miles, Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Miguel, Jessica Drew, Ham, Noir, Punk and who knows whose else will come by. Not to mention Morbius, Black Cat, Rocket Racer, Silver Sable, Dr Oct and the rest.

    Meanwhile at Dc as Nite-Wing pointed out-it's a marking of territories here.



    Duke Thomas says HI. And the way the writers treat him they don't care for him either.
    Duke isn't a legacy character and in his case I hold his creator Snyder more at fault. A writer of his clout could have done wonders for Duke if he'd elected to pen a series focused on him.

    He keeps palming the character off on other writers .

    I can't even agree with the fault being due to the fans being divisive or possessive since we've had legacy character break through [Damian Wayne/Wally/Cass/Jamie]/ get past the rough patches [Wallace] only to kneecaped by DC.

    It's almost like DC enjoys pitting their fans against each other. That or they get gun-shy years after the legacy character has managed to cultivate a base then they pull the plug.

    There's no reason why Wally, Jamie or Damian couldn't be where Miles or Kamala are right now.

    Heck look at Nightwing. Nightwing should have become a house hold name a decades ago. Recognised by audiences as an independent hero if DC/WB had handled their legacies right. Developed and divorced from the Robin identity enough leaving Tim and Damian as the ones associated with that sidekick identity
    Last edited by Fergus; 10-19-2020 at 07:00 PM.

  10. #115
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    15,236

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Duke isn't a legacy character and in his case I hold his creator Snyder more at fault. A writer of his clout could have done wonders for Duke if he'd elected to pen a series focused on him.

    He keeps palming the character off on other writers .

    I can't even agree with the fault being due to the fans being divisive or possessive since we've had legacy character break through [Damian Wayne/Wally/Cass/Jamie]/ get past the rough patches [Wallace] only to kneecaped by DC.

    It's almost like DC enjoys pitting their fans against each other. That or they get gun-shy years after the legacy character has managed to cultivate a base then they pull the plug.

    There's no reason why Wally, Jamie or Damian couldn't be where Miles or Kamala are right now.

    Heck look at Nightwing. Nightwing should have become a house hold name a decades ago. Recognised by audiences as an independent hero if DC/WB had handled their legacies right. Developed and divorced from the Robin identity enough leaving Tim and Damian as the ones associated with that sidekick identity
    "Better than Robin" is what got Duke the ire of Robin (mainly Tim) fans. With claims Duke was a black version of Tim. Never mind how little (outside of Batman and Signal mini and backups in All Star Batman) work Duke had in books. Like you said panning him on writers who proved they did not care for Duke.

    It's saying a lot when Batman has trained everyone else and they actually had adventures with him in Batman and Detective-Duke is restricted to one panel cameos.

    Cass did not get the hate because her predecessor had a new id and the Batgirl title was dormant.
    Wally took over for his dead mentor
    Tim actually had a new id after Damian arrived.

    Jaime???? You must have missed the DC Comics forum from back in the day It was toxic for Jaime fans. We won't discuss how toxic it was for Jason fans and even the creative team on his book. The Jason hate is one of the reason we don't have that forum.

    It is a combination of fans and Dc employees. Some characters have it worst than others. John Stewart can't be in anything without a certain fandom getting mad. Despite their guy having his 3 in 9 years solo series run.

    And I think it's going to get way worst in the months ahead.

  11. #116
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    "Better than Robin" is what got Duke the ire of Robin (mainly Tim) fans. With claims Duke was a black version of Tim. Never mind how little (outside of Batman and Signal mini and backups in All Star Batman) work Duke had in books. Like you said panning him on writers who proved they did not care for Duke.

    It's saying a lot when Batman has trained everyone else and they actually had adventures with him in Batman and Detective-Duke is restricted to one panel cameos.

    Cass did not get the hate because her predecessor had a new id and the Batgirl title was dormant.
    Wally took over for his dead mentor
    Tim actually had a new id after Damian arrived.

    Jaime???? You must have missed the DC Comics forum from back in the day It was toxic for Jaime fans. We won't discuss how toxic it was for Jason fans and even the creative team on his book. The Jason hate is one of the reason we don't have that forum.

    It is a combination of fans and Dc employees. Some characters have it worst than others. John Stewart can't be in anything without a certain fandom getting mad. Despite their guy having his 3 in 9 years solo series run.

    And I think it's going to get way worst in the months ahead.
    Cass and Wally absolutely did get hate.

  12. #117
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    10,054

    Default

    Some of it from people working at the very company that spawned them.

  13. #118
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    1,415

    Default

    I'm gonna add you on ignore now
    Typical.

    Anyway, Miles being a star of a new game which is basically sequel/expansion isn't a huge deal. If Marvel actually "care" about their legacy characters, Miles would have been the Spider-Man of MCU instead of Pater. If they cared, Ms Marvel would have got a movie a long time ago.

    So OP, no. Marvel isn't doing a better job than DC with their handling of their legacy characters (especially when they only have two successful and one of them only end up being successful thanks to Sony). They definitely did a smart job by not filling their universe with unnecessary legacy characters left and right like DC did, tho.
    “Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self-control to be understanding and forgiving.”
    – Dale Carnegie

  14. #119
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    3,621

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Nope. You can take that away and what I said still applies.
    No, actually it doesn’t. Your whole point is predicated around that statement. Making it fall apart since it was never actually said, and the argument is actually that legacy characters grow and eventually are no longer legacy characters.
    Last edited by TheRay; 10-20-2020 at 04:54 AM.

  15. #120
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    10,054

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    No, actually it doesn’t.
    Yes, it does. There are more legacy characters who are divergent from their predecessors than those who are carbon copies. A legacy character differing in some fashion does not mean they're not a legacy character. So yes, the Robins and Green Lanterns post-Hal are legacy characters. This isn't even arguable.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •