Top Tier Boxers that could dominated Top Tier MMA fighters.

[JohnDiggle]

Is it possible?

[grampagen]

Broadly, yes.

In UFC alone, we've seen cases where refined striking ability kept the fight upright such that it was to the striker's advantage. Fights like. say, Amanda Nunes vs Ronda Rousey, or GSP vs Josh Koshcheck 2 are examples of this.

The thing is, their striking gameplan came about as a result of knowing how an MMA fighter plays the game, and as such they had the knowledge of what to expect, what to stay away from, and how to maintain the distance to counter.

If you're going to throw in a boxer with no foreknowledge of what to expect against an MMA fighter, raw, with no plan, or training for what to expect, the boxer is going to be looking for punches to slip while the other fighter is going to be looking for openings for low-kicks and takedown shoots and stuff like that.

I don't quite recall who it was, but there was a case where a boxer did as much, and got a headkick and a ruptured eardrum for his trouble; And then there's the infamous exhibition of Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki, where the latter spent most of the fight scooting around on his butt kicking Ali in the shins, forcing a draw even though he wasn't allowed to grapple.

Uh...so I'm not sure how to answer this question, or what you're asking, precisely? Did you want a list of boxers who could do this? Because most of the time they would be lacking feats. Even Floyd Mayweather Jr. had to stipulate 'no kicking' against Tenshin Nasukawa.

[master of read]

Broadly, yes.

In UFC alone, we've seen cases where refined striking ability kept the fight upright such that it was to the striker's advantage. Fights like. say, Amanda Nunes vs Ronda Rousey, or GSP vs Josh Koshcheck 2 are examples of this.

The thing is, their striking gameplan came about as a result of knowing how an MMA fighter plays the game, and as such they had the knowledge of what to expect, what to stay away from, and how to maintain the distance to counter.

If you're going to throw in a boxer with no foreknowledge of what to expect against an MMA fighter, raw, with no plan, or training for what to expect, the boxer is going to be looking for punches to slip while the other fighter is going to be looking for openings for low-kicks and takedown shoots and stuff like that.

I don't quite recall who it was, but there was a case where a boxer did as much, and got a headkick and a ruptured eardrum for his trouble; And then there's the infamous exhibition of Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki, where the latter spent most of the fight scooting around on his butt kicking Ali in the shins, forcing a draw even though he wasn't allowed to grapple.

Uh...so I'm not sure how to answer this question, or what you're asking, precisely? Did you want a list of boxers who could do this? Because most of the time they would be lacking feats. Even Floyd Mayweather Jr. had to stipulate 'no kicking' against Tenshin Nasukawa.

and lets not forget james toney vs. randy couture. toney is a powerful KO artist but his whole game plan was trying to stand up with randy. randy knew this and pretty much did what any MMA fighter would've done: do anything but box.

it appeared as though toney either didn't know or didn't try to know how MMA fighters worked and just went in, solely banking on his boxing and knock out power to win him the fight.

fight starts. randy picks his ankle, takes him to the ground and taps him with a RNC. toney had no answer for this, at all.

so i agree. it's possible for a top tier boxer to dominate top MMA fighters but ONLY if they trained in MMA. the same goes for almost any other style.

[Powerboy]

Broadly, yes.

In UFC alone, we've seen cases where refined striking ability kept the fight upright such that it was to the striker's advantage. Fights like. say, Amanda Nunes vs Ronda Rousey, or GSP vs Josh Koshcheck 2 are examples of this.

The thing is, their striking gameplan came about as a result of knowing how an MMA fighter plays the game, and as such they had the knowledge of what to expect, what to stay away from, and how to maintain the distance to counter.

If you're going to throw in a boxer with no foreknowledge of what to expect against an MMA fighter, raw, with no plan, or training for what to expect, the boxer is going to be looking for punches to slip while the other fighter is going to be looking for openings for low-kicks and takedown shoots and stuff like that.

I don't quite recall who it was, but there was a case where a boxer did as much, and got a headkick and a ruptured eardrum for his trouble; And then there's the infamous exhibition of Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki, where the latter spent most of the fight scooting around on his butt kicking Ali in the shins, forcing a draw even though he wasn't allowed to grapple.

Uh...so I'm not sure how to answer this question, or what you're asking, precisely? Did you want a list of boxers who could do this? Because most of the time they would be lacking feats. Even Floyd Mayweather Jr. had to stipulate 'no kicking' against Tenshin Nasukawa.

I thought Inoki was allowed to grapple but was just keeping himself in a position where Ali was not allowed to hit him. He wasn't about to weather that flurry of punches to try to grapple. But that's the best boxer in the world at the time versus a guy who did choreographed wrestling.

I would think any decent boxer and any decent MMA fighter would do their homework and know what they were going to be up against. I would tend to lean towards the MMA guy if all other things were equal because it's a broader skill set. However, I have no idea if the absolute best talent is drawn more towards MMA or towards boxing. The absolute best boxer is not going to go into MMA or the absolute best MMA guy into boxing. Neither would go into something where they would be second best. So, they would likely be people at the end of a career and looking for something else when they are past their best.

[grampagen]

and lets not forget james toney vs. randy couture. toney is a powerful KO artist but his whole game plan was trying to stand up with randy. randy knew this and pretty much did what any MMA fighter would've done: do anything but box.

it appeared as though toney either didn't know or didn't try to know how MMA fighters worked and just went in, solely banking on his boxing and knock out power to win him the fight.

fight starts. randy picks his ankle, takes him to the ground and taps him with a RNC. toney had no answer for this, at all.

so i agree. it's possible for a top tier boxer to dominate top MMA fighters but ONLY if they trained in MMA. the same goes for almost any other style.

That's also a good example. At that time, Randy was more aware and trained for the scenario and knew which advantages to press, while James Toney was ready to fight a boxer's fight.

I thought Inoki was allowed to grapple but was just keeping himself in a position where Ali was not allowed to hit him. He wasn't about to weather that flurry of punches to try to grapple. But that's the best boxer in the world at the time versus a guy who did choreographed wrestling.

This is true. All the same Inoki was a legit student of Catch-as-Catch-Can through Karl Gotch and was also known for his kicks. He coined the term 'Strong Style' because he threw down with martial artists and the like and won.

Granted, he didn't want to catch those hands - really, who would - so the exhibition went weird places for both of them.

I would think any decent boxer and any decent MMA fighter would do their homework and know what they were going to be up against. I would tend to lean towards the MMA guy if all other things were equal because it's a broader skill set. However, I have no idea if the absolute best talent is drawn more towards MMA or towards boxing. The absolute best boxer is not going to go into MMA or the absolute best MMA guy into boxing. Neither would go into something where they would be second best. So, they would likely be people at the end of a career and looking for something else when they are past their best.

Agreed on this. There are a lot of variables to consider, but on paper at least the MMA fighter would have knowledge of a wider range of scenarios and account for more of them.

[master of read]

That's also a good example. At that time, Randy was more aware and trained for the scenario and knew which advantages to press, while James Toney was ready to fight a boxer's fight.



This is true. All the same Inoki was a legit student of Catch-as-Catch-Can through Karl Gotch and was also known for his kicks. He coined the term 'Strong Style' because he threw down with martial artists and the like and won.

Granted, he didn't want to catch those hands - really, who would - so the exhibition went weird places for both of them.





Agreed on this. There are a lot of variables to consider, but on paper at least the MMA fighter would have knowledge of a wider range of scenarios and account for more of them.

in the lead up to the fight, all toney and his trainers could talk about is how randy wasn't a boxer and how he was gonna get knocked out. randy, OTOH, said he wasn't gonna try to box him and he was just gonna shoot on him first chance he got.

[Arsenal]

No.

Not only would a Boxer have to become extremely competent in various styles of martial arts in an extremely short amount of time, but they’d almost have to completely relearn how to fight. There are way to many new variables involved for a Boxer to treat a MMA match like a boxing one and still expect to win it.

That’s not to say they absolutely can’t win, just that it’s highly unlikely they would be able to do it consistently against opponents in their appropriate weight classes.

[big_adventure]

It isn't as cut and dried as most people like to say.

There is an advantage to specializing: boxers have significantly better stamina and better fist hitting power and technique than MMA fighters. MMA fighters have better kicks, locks, takedowns and groundwork. Even MMA guys who don't specialize in grappling are going to be better than almost any boxer at those things due to training against it.

An MMA fighter does not want to try walking in through the strikes a premier boxer can deliver, just as much as said boxer doesn't want to get into a situation where the MMA fighter can bring his, for lack of a more concise term, "esoterics" into play. Almost no MMA fighter can dance like a great boxer, and they aren't really prepared to face that. But no boxer trains to watch incoming feet, or a guy willing to go to his knees to go for a deep takedown.

What that means, for me, is that neither really will dominate the other. MacGregor against Mayweather, for example: with the boxing rules specified for that fight, Conner had zero chance against Floyd. But even if you opened the rules to allow kicks and groundwork, that wouldn't simply guarantee a victory for MacGregor. Floyd is hard to catch and hard to hit, even with quick, glancing jabs and such. Trying to hit him with slow-ass (relatively) kicks or trying to get in deep enough for a lock or a takedown would not by any means be easy, especially as the most accurate and one of the quickest punchers in history is picking you apart each time you try to take him out of his happy place.

Mileage may vary, as a wise man is prone to say, that's just how I see it. My club fighting experience has worked out that way as well: back when I practiced both, in "open" matches, I'd force people who wanted to grapple to box me, and people who wanted to box me into grappling as much as I could. Sometimes it would work, sometimes not.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Prime Tyson with 6 months TDD training would be UFC champ.

[master of read]

Prime Tyson with 6 months TDD training would be UFC champ.

it would take more than six months. and it would depend on who he fights.

[big_adventure]

It wouldn't really take more than 6 months of hard training (something prime Mike lapped up) to transform 20 year old WBA/WBC/WBO champ Tyson into 21 year old UFC champ Tyson.

You aren't talking about training a fit person from zero. You are talking about modifying the training of someone who:

1. Has the best reactions I've ever seen in a fighter of his size.

2. Has absolutely ludicrous hitting power.

3. Has been training every day for years already in fighting.

4. Was already a street fighter from childhood and likely a future multiple murderer had he not been pulled into boxing.

...and turning that person into a slightly different fighter. It's not a guarantee, but there's no reason at all that 21-year-old Tyson couldn't be competitive in UFC after 6 months of full-on training. Especially if you kept Bill Cayton on his team.

[master of read]

It wouldn't really take more than 6 months of hard training (something prime Mike lapped up) to transform 20 year old WBA/WBC/WBO champ Tyson into 21 year old UFC champ Tyson.

You aren't talking about training a fit person from zero. You are talking about modifying the training of someone who:

1. Has the best reactions I've ever seen in a fighter of his size.

2. Has absolutely ludicrous hitting power.

3. Has been training every day for years already in fighting.

4. Was already a street fighter from childhood and likely a future multiple murderer had he not been pulled into boxing.

...and turning that person into a slightly different fighter. It's not a guarantee, but there's no reason at all that 21-year-old Tyson couldn't be competitive in UFC after 6 months of full-on training. Especially if you kept Bill Cayton on his team.

never said it was impossible. just said it would take longer than six months of training to make him a champion and it depended on who he fights to get there.

[Powerboy]

This is true. All the same Inoki was a legit student of Catch-as-Catch-Can through Karl Gotch and was also known for his kicks. He coined the term 'Strong Style' because he threw down with martial artists and the like and won.

Granted, he didn't want to catch those hands - really, who would - so the exhibition went weird places for both of them.

Neither here nor there but I remember hearing about a match with Inoki against Bruno Sammartino. Without getting into all the details behind it, Bruno realized at a certain point that Inoki was going at him for real, hitting and kicking him for real including a stunning head kick and putting him into a painful joint lock. At that point, Bruno was able to power out of the lock, started hitting Inoki for real and got him in a hold exerting his full strength. Inoki couldn't get out of it. Bruno let go but the message was delivered. From there, Inoki went through with the match as planned with no more cheap shots or attempts to win by doing things he wasn't supposed to.

Granted, going against Bruno was going against someone with an overwhelming strength advantage but still.

[master of read]

Neither here nor there but I remember hearing about a match with Inoki against Bruno Sammartino. Without getting into all the details behind it, Bruno realized at a certain point that Inoki was going at him for real, hitting and kicking him for real including a stunning head kick and putting him into a painful joint lock. At that point, Bruno was able to power out of the lock, started hitting Inoki for real and got him in a hold exerting his full strength. Inoki couldn't get out of it. Bruno let go but the message was delivered. From there, Inoki went through with the match as planned with no more cheap shots or attempts to win by doing things he wasn't supposed to.

Granted, going against Bruno was going against someone with an overwhelming strength advantage but still.

and thus, strong style was born. lol.

but, yeah. not sure what inoki was thinking, trying to shoot on a mountain of muscle like bruno. the only person i could see doing that and having any kind of success would be minoru suzuki.

[Powerboy]

and thus, strong style was born. lol.

but, yeah. not sure what inoki was thinking, trying to shoot on a mountain of muscle like bruno. the only person i could see doing that and having any kind of success would be minoru suzuki.

The thing I found so funny about that was that Inoki hit and kicked him several times and tried to injure him with a joint lock and it took Bruno a minute to realize Inoki was going at him for real because it really wasn't effecting him that much.