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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Incognito's Avatar
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    Default Pitch A Direction: Raven

    Raven has first appeared as a member of the original New Teen Titans in Marv Wolfman and George Perez acclaimed run and has existed for 40 years, she has been a longstanding member of the Teen Titans/Titans. Her first animated appearance was in Teen Titans (2003) show where she gained a cult following, and she has also appeared in various media such as Teen Titans Go, DC Animated Movie Universe and Titans (2018) live-action show as well as video games such as Injustice and Lego Batman 3: Beyond Gotham.

    I would like to know what ideas and direction would you pitch for the character?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    I actually never read anything about Raven ever, just bits and pieces, so this is more about what I want to read based on my perception.

    I'll start with a Trigon story as the introductory since that's her origin and definitive status, and then moved on to... since I don't like her de-aged... adjusting her life as a twenty-something without the Titans.

    Starfire, Donna, and Dick regularly show up because they're friends and I don't like isolating character, so they help, but they don't stay around for the hero stuffs

    The superhero status quo is the town she picks to stay is either stands atop of a Hell Mouth or a Nexus of Supernatural Dimension. So freaky shit starts happening and she has to solve it while also facing prejudices from the locals because of her own demonic power and creepy appearance.

    The one thing I don't want to read is Raven in school. It's just way too easy to make her a high school goth girl. So even if she studies in a University, I don't... want her to dress like a goth girl, it's just so typical. Unless she does like Goth, then yeah sure, I just get the feeling they choose that aesthetic because it's relatable and easy. I can see her doing that to fit in because that's the closest thing to her natural aesthetic so if that's the story, then fine. She's also known more to be a Teen now than anything, so I guess, if I have to follow the audience, I'll put her in school.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I'm an old school Raven fan from the earlier NTT days. So nothing goth about her. She actually took a class or two at university back then. But she's so far removed from what she used to be - or at least was when I last read her - that I don't know how move forward from what she is today. I do want her fully grown up. Over 22 - outside undergrad range and in a place where no one would think of her as any sort of kid. Solo or team is okay with me, though I'd want to see at least some visits from her team members if so. I don't even know what the status of her mother is now. It would be interesting seeing her work as someone who doesn't have an education (well, not an earth-based, training-for-work type education), maybe. Obviously, she's intelligent. And while she can use the advanced tech teams used, in the old days she didn't have any particular skillset in that area. So a non-genius without a degree. What sort of field would suit her? What sort of supporting characters (regardless if she's solo or team) would be good to have? Rather than lifting existing ones, what sort of newly created role would fit well in her story, and what story would that be? Definitely don't a repeat of Trigon or her demonic nature - that story, like Vic's machine v. man, has been told too many times already.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I'm an old school Raven fan from the earlier NTT days. So nothing goth about her. She actually took a class or two at university back then. But she's so far removed from what she used to be - or at least was when I last read her - that I don't know how move forward from what she is today. I do want her fully grown up. Over 22 - outside undergrad range and in a place where no one would think of her as any sort of kid. Solo or team is okay with me, though I'd want to see at least some visits from her team members if so. I don't even know what the status of her mother is now. It would be interesting seeing her work as someone who doesn't have an education (well, not an earth-based, training-for-work type education), maybe. Obviously, she's intelligent. And while she can use the advanced tech teams used, in the old days she didn't have any particular skillset in that area. So a non-genius without a degree. What sort of field would suit her? What sort of supporting characters (regardless if she's solo or team) would be good to have? Rather than lifting existing ones, what sort of newly created role would fit well in her story, and what story would that be? Definitely don't a repeat of Trigon or her demonic nature - that story, like Vic's machine v. man, has been told too many times already.
    I just imagine this tall woman with a hood flipping burger or delivering pizza... the hood would be gone since she has to wear the uniform, but that's probably worse because she has a... unique face ^^

  5. #5
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    Raven should become an apprentice of Dr. Fate, possibly becoming his successor or Khalid's successor someday.

  6. #6
    Incredible Member Incognito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I'm an old school Raven fan from the earlier NTT days. So nothing goth about her. She actually took a class or two at university back then. But she's so far removed from what she used to be - or at least was when I last read her - that I don't know how move forward from what she is today. I do want her fully grown up. Over 22 - outside undergrad range and in a place where no one would think of her as any sort of kid. Solo or team is okay with me, though I'd want to see at least some visits from her team members if so. I don't even know what the status of her mother is now. It would be interesting seeing her work as someone who doesn't have an education (well, not an earth-based, training-for-work type education), maybe. Obviously, she's intelligent. And while she can use the advanced tech teams used, in the old days she didn't have any particular skillset in that area. So a non-genius without a degree. What sort of field would suit her? What sort of supporting characters (regardless if she's solo or team) would be good to have? Rather than lifting existing ones, what sort of newly created role would fit well in her story, and what story would that be? Definitely don't a repeat of Trigon or her demonic nature - that story, like Vic's machine v. man, has been told too many times already.
    Her mother is currently alive in the current timeline. I imagine Raven would have a career in psychology because of the empathic powers she can sense the behavioural patterns of her subjects or a creative field like in writing as an author probably because of the Teen Titans 2003 animated series I remember that she loves reading books a lot, it could work for her I don't see her taking in a practical profession.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan2013 View Post
    Her mother is currently alive in the current timeline. I imagine Raven would have a career in psychology because of the empathic powers she can sense the behavioural patterns of her subjects or a creative field like in writing as an author probably because of the Teen Titans 2003 animated series I remember that she loves reading books a lot, it could work for her I don't see her taking in a practical profession.
    Then is one of her rich buddies going to have to kick in and support her in the meantime while she gets a a degree or writes a first book? Or does her mom have money this time? I really didn't mind the other Titans paying for her college classes back in the original NTT (at least, I assumed they paid, as it wasn't mentioned, but seemed feasible) but where she got the funds for the apartment bugged me. I mean, she was already provided rent-free accommodation in tower, so paying for a second place....

  8. #8
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    First, I would actually allow her to age up. Start telling stories with her at at least 20 years old.

    Second, make her powers less superpower based and more magic based. Her sole self can still do all of its usual stuff, but it has a limit, in which case Raven would usually result to ritual magic or invocation.

    Definitely wouldn't touch too much on any Trigon stuff, but at the end of the day, horror is a part of her character and it's a genre that can/should be tapped into with a book or two.

    Put her in Gotham. I know it's overcrowded as is, but it is her hometown. Over the last few years she had gotten a degree in nursing, until she realized that she wanted to do more than heal physical wounds, but also heal on a mental level, and so while working at the Gotham General as a nurse she begins putting herself through college to get her PhD in psychology.

    Eventually, she manages to score a job at the Arkham Asylum, where most of her stories will take place. Have her stories be primarily Arkham based and really make Arkham hers with a series of horror/suspense theme books.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Incognito's Avatar
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    I would age Raven up into her 20's and have her be in the same age gap as her NTT contemporaries and have a career in writing as an author as a reference to the TV show since she does read a lot of books and I think her a writer suits her. She will be part of Justice League Dark instead of the Titans because I felt that she would fit better in a team of supernatural rather than staying with the Titans all the time she could travel to various magical planes such as Heaven, Hell, Underworld, etc. I would like her to have stories which are more close to horror since Marv Wolfman envision her as a genre character, I would tap into the Lovecraft Country series by introducing eldritch elements. Also, another series which is based on a comic book would be Legion I would bring some psychological thriller because with her backstory as her being the daughter of a devil, honing and controlling her powers and her duality of being both human and devil could. I would like to see her face Psycho Pirate two emotional manipulators playing mental games with each other she could be her 'Shadow King'. I do not know where she should be based in but I think Los Angeles could ironically be a good setting for her, a demon living in the city of angels or she could remain in San Francisco and maybe revamp it into Jump City since in the animated show it was based on the city.

    I remember that Etrigan is her aunt so I would like to see them interact with each other and I would like to see her interact with powerful celestials such as the Presence and Lucifer Morningstar. Shazam protects the world from the seven deadly sins and since Raven is an embodiment of one of the sins it would be cool if there was a connection between Trigon and the Shazam mythos maybe the seven deadly sins that were trapped as statutes could be his children because I remember that six of the sins were men while one of them was female which was Pride the same element which Raven is an embodiment of.

    There are some elements from the Teen Titans 2003 animated series that I would like to see integrated into the comics such as bringing the Nevermore concept to her lore I like that she has living embodiments of her emotions reminds me of Inside Out, her alter ego 'Lady Legasus' or her good half White Raven could represent as the 'Superego' while Dark Raven could represent as the 'Id' with Rachel Roth as the 'Ego'.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Second, make her powers less superpower based and more magic based. Her sole self can still do all of its usual stuff, but it has a limit, in which case Raven would usually result to ritual magic or invocation.
    I'm fond of the earlier - much less powerful - version that had nothing at all to do with magic in general. Always arguing against power-ups. But most fans like more power.

    I would like her to have stories which are more close to horror since Marv Wolfman envision her as a genre character, I would tap into the Lovecraft Country series by introducing eldritch elements.
    May be a good fit for the character. Totally not a genre I'm interested in, though. Still, expanding to other genres isn't a bad idea for DC.

  11. #11
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    Btw. in the current issue of Nightwing there is actually picture of the NTT with the Fab5, Beastboy, Raven and Starfire (Cyborg is still missing). But I doubt that this will really stick.

  12. #12
    Incredible Member Incognito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Then is one of her rich buddies going to have to kick in and support her in the meantime while she gets a a degree or writes a first book? Or does her mom have money this time? I really didn't mind the other Titans paying for her college classes back in the original NTT (at least, I assumed they paid, as it wasn't mentioned, but seemed feasible) but where she got the funds for the apartment bugged me. I mean, she was already provided rent-free accommodation in tower, so paying for a second place....
    Well currently she is living with her aunt so she could stay with them and find a local university or she could move into accommodation just like any other student and get a part-time job. I can't remember if she paid for her college classes and I do not think she had a job in the NTT since I remember that the other Titans such as Donna had jobs. Maybe it was Silas who was funding her accommodation I remember that it was him who funds the Tower I do not know how rich he is.
    Last edited by Incognito; 10-20-2020 at 01:08 PM.

  13. #13
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    Raven is essentially "What if your dad was a serial killer?" or "What if your dad was Hitler?" No so much Vader, since there's no hope of redeeming Trigon.

    She'd have reservations about sharing her identity because people would judge her for the sins of her father. DC's magical community might fear her, so I could see them having someone watch over her in the guise of a mentor like the Phantom Stranger (Judas Iscariot), the Spectre, Jason Blood, or Pandora. She'd be learning to control her abilities from someone who knows they may have to put her down-- Like Luke and Kylo or Obi Wan and Anakin. Throw in some potential Targaryen madness or demonic, Hulk-like rage to stir things up further. Focus on what she could become--good or bad.

    Also, she was born from a Lovecraftian cult ritual, so having her taking down cults, like the one run by Brother Blood seems appropriate. Her empathic senses would be a good way to track down people who have been kidnapped. A psychic investigator who can feel the fear or pain of the victim would make Raven more sympathetic.

    Setting her stories in the city of angels would be poetic.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan2013 View Post
    Well currently she is living with her aunt so she could stay with them and find a local university or she could move into accommodation just like any other student and get a part-time job. I can't remember if she paid for her college classes and I do not think she had a job in the NTT since I remember that the other Titans such as Donna had jobs. Maybe it was Silas who was funding her accommodation I remember that it was him who funds the Tower I do not know how rich he is.
    I mean the old NTT. Silas was dead (though he did build the Tower for them before he died). One meeting showed that all Titans except Raven chipped in on expenses and such (insurance went up a lot after last attack). Back then Donna got an allowance from Hippolyta (in addition to being a very successful photographer). And had a really expensive-looking apartment. Vic was rich because he inherited his dad's money and patents. Dick was living off Bruce's money (unsure if allowance or trust fund), though not always happy about it (can't recall if that was specified pre or post COIE). Kory was a famous model. Gar had some tv gigs but not much, his adoptive father (sometimes called stepfather) was way richer than Bruce Wayne and I guess he inherited some money too (was mentioned by in 1960s comics) though he was a minor so he may not be included in that. Can't recall if Wally was still there, but he wouldn't have had that kind of money.

    Honestly, I haven't read Raven in years (not since New 52 started) and didn't even know she had an aunt.

    or she could move into accommodation just like any other student and get a part-time job.
    Her aunt has good money, then? Or she lives in a state where more is covered (minimum 10k a year otherwise)? Not to mention living expenses.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-20-2020 at 01:17 PM.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind seeing her join the Justice League Dark.

    Or a solo series like the Scarlet witch did a few years back, where she journeys around to learn more about magic and herself.
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

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