Looking at the DC fandom

[Fergus]

I'm Irish, male and over 35. It doesn't affect my reading experience but since my kids started reading comics I've become more critical. My kids are mixed [wife is Nigerian] so race and representation has become more of an issue.
My kids get excited when they see brown people in comics or on TV. My daughter always comments whenever she see's little girls with curls in media. I'd like images like that to be the norm rather than such an exception that she's compelled to comment.

[J. D. Guy]

Rey from Star Wars I guess, her personality was like paper and I found Finn more interesting. She stopped being a mary sue in the Last Jedi when they had the conflict about her family and made her lineage unrelated to Skywalkers/Palpatine. Then they had to make her a Palpatine.

Mulan from the 2020 remake is another one. They turned chi into the Jedi force and had Mulan lose everything that made her growth more compelling in the original.

I've seen movies were a badass female character was done right(Atomic Blonde) but these two aren't one of them.

Rey is interesting in how she is percieved, which tends to run in polar extremes. A lot claim her as Mary Sue, a lot of others claim her as logically progressed, particularly in the first movie, even relatable. There's also the counterpoint given to those who claim Rey an apparent Mary Sue in that her very arc and role intentionally mirrors Luke's, a guy who, of course, isn't really know to be considered a Gary/Marty Stu himself, even though by the logic ascribed to Rey he should be as well. (In general, it's typically female characters of modern works who get labeled Mary Sues anyway; males who go through the same or extremely similar arcs are simply seen as naturally taking a level(s) in badass.)

[J. D. Guy]

Asian (not the small eyes small nose race *rolls eyes*, but South East one).
Under 35.
Female.
Not really? I mean, of the Trinity, I don't read Wonder Woman and when I think again, I have very little favorite female heroes, does my gender affect that? I love Starfire and Black Widow though.
And I don't give a **** about character's race when I read comic (I thought that's the point of anti-racism. You know, not judge based on race). Bao Pham sounds like Thailand or Vietnamese name (both are South East Asia) but I'm not fond of him, because the last thing we need is another kid who protested about Batman 'no killing rule' and offered 'permanet solution'.
Banana is fine, but if you have banana trees in front, beside and on back of your house (and also your neighborhood), there's time when I get completely sick of banana.

Hmm. No, not quite.

[Crazy Diamond]

Rey is interesting in how she is percieved, which tends to run in polar extremes. A lot claim her as Mary Sue, a lot of others claim her as logically progressed, particularly in the first movie, even relatable. There's also the counterpoint given to those who claim Rey an apparent Mary Sue in that her very arc and role intentionally mirrors Luke's, a guy who, of course, isn't really know to be considered a Gary/Marty Stu himself, even though by the logic ascribed to Rey he should be as well. (In general, it's typically female characters of modern works who get labeled Mary Sues anyway; males who go through the same or extremely similar arcs are simply seen as naturally taking a level(s) in badass.)

I thought Mary Sue was for when someone goes, takes their self-insert character into a fan work, and then proceeds to outdo the whole cast including the main character. It doesn't work when the character was designed to be like that for the original work.

What I remember about Rey was her role was coherent in the first film and then steadily made less sense with the sequels but that's on the directors and writers.

There is the Author's Pet though. Didn't get that vibe with Rey when I saw her.

[J. D. Guy]

I thought Mary Sue was for when someone goes, takes their self-insert character into a fan work, and then proceeds to outdo the whole cast including the main character. It doesn't work when the character was designed to be like that for the original work.

What I remember about Rey was her role was coherent in the first film and then steadily made less sense with the sequels but that's on the directors and writers.

There is the Author's Pet though. Didn't get that vibe with Rey when I saw her.

The bold is indeed why the term(s) Mary Sue/Marty Sue/Marty Stu/Gary Stu/Gary Sue/etc. are frequently contested. It gets applied to many facets of storytelling and analysis that go beyond the scope of what it was originally applied to. And often, it gets used as a buzz word and weapon to show detraction to disliked characters. In sum, there's no real and hard, agreed-on definition of the word as is in contemporary times beyond how it was originally used in the past. But people use it anyway.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Rey is interesting in how she is percieved, which tends to run in polar extremes. A lot claim her as Mary Sue, a lot of others claim her as logically progressed, particularly in the first movie, even relatable. There's also the counterpoint given to those who claim Rey an apparent Mary Sue in that her very arc and role intentionally mirrors Luke's, a guy who, of course, isn't really know to be considered a Gary/Marty Stu himself, even though by the logic ascribed to Rey he should be as well. (In general, it's typically female characters of modern works who get labeled Mary Sues anyway; males who go through the same or extremely similar arcs are simply seen as naturally taking a level(s) in badass.)

Luke Skywalker is considered a Gary Stu by many. It's only his fans that act like no one has called him that but they have.

[Dark Falz]

I would not call Luke Skywalker a Gary Stu. He gets beat down by Darth Vader, gets shot down or crashes numerous times, does not end up with the girl (which I guess works because the girl is his sister, but still...). He actually had to go through quite a bit of failure and soul searching before he got to a "bad ass" and self assured status in Return of the Jedi.

[Agent Z]

I thought Mary Sue was for when someone goes, takes their self-insert character into a fan work, and then proceeds to outdo the whole cast including the main character. It doesn't work when the character was designed to be like that for the original work.

What I remember about Rey was her role was coherent in the first film and then steadily made less sense with the sequels but that's on the directors and writers.

There is the Author's Pet though. Didn't get that vibe with Rey when I saw her.

Nine times out of ten, Mary Sue is what people on the Internet call characters they don't like even when they don't fit their shallow and inaccurate idea of what a Mary Sue is. It's a term that has become as misused as "grimdark".

[PCN24454]

I would not call Luke Skywalker a Gary Stu. He gets beat down by Darth Vader, gets shot down or crashes numerous times, does not end up with the girl (which I guess works because the girl is his sister, but still...). He actually had to go through quite a bit of failure and soul searching before he got to a "bad ass" and self assured status in Return of the Jedi.

I would say the most appropriate reason why Luke isn't a Gary Stu is because he's the main character of the series. Stus/Sues always have some level of intrusion in the story. Can't really intrude on your own story.

That's why Batman can't be considered a Gary Stu in Batman books but can be considered one in Justice League books.

[Dark Falz]

I'm Irish, male and over 35. It doesn't affect my reading experience but since my kids started reading comics I've become more critical. My kids are mixed [wife is Nigerian] so race and representation has become more of an issue.
My kids get excited when they see brown people in comics or on TV. My daughter always comments whenever she see's little girls with curls in media. I'd like images like that to be the norm rather than such an exception that she's compelled to comment.

Yeah, I marked out when I discovered Nella the Princess Knight. I'm not even a girl, but it was cool to see a mixed heroine and mixed family portrayed on television in a sort of fantasy setting at that. And also in a feature where it wasn't about *in melodramatic voice* "Oh, all the challenges we must overcome!" It was just presented as a norm, and again, in my experience, it was just...more or less normal being mixed, at least from my perspective.

I mean, I would (and still do) sometimes get annoying questions like "What are you?" or from black people it would sometimes manifest as "What are you mixed with?" but while I think those were rude, I didn't think they were necessarily from malice, more from not understanding or taking into consideration my perspective, and it's not like they scarred me for life. Just annoying. Also, people would sometimes try to covertly coerce me into talking about race or my background to try to get me to divulge my background, which I would never play into. Just little annoying things, for the most part. That said, in my experience, some mixed people don't really mind those questions.

[J. D. Guy]

Luke Skywalker is considered a Gary Stu by many. It's only his fans that act like no one has called him that but they have.

Ah, I see. Wasn't aware of that particularity.

That mostly because I am not really into Star Wars. Most of what I know comes from a couple of the more recent animated series that don't feature many people in the main movies in any big role, if at all, with the rest coming from pop culture osmosis.

That I know as much as I do about the whole Rey thing goes to show how loudly her detractors detract her and her fans stick up for her, often in retaliation to and defense from the former's loud detractions.

(The thing about female characters getting labeled Sues more than male ones Stus for similar/the same story arcs/beats still stands, unfortunately.)

[Robanker]

White
Male
Under 35
Bananas are good!

I feel you missed options for our LGBTQ+ readers, which while I'm straight, that seems like a pretty glaring omission.

[Marvell2100]

Black
Male
Over 35. If I gave my real age I would have to wipe out humanity.

I'm open to reading good comics but I find myself looking for more books with poc leads.

I hate bananas but I love muscadines!

[lemonpeace]

White
Male
Under 35
Bananas are good!

I feel you missed options for our LGBTQ+ readers, which while I'm straight, that seems like a pretty glaring omission.

that completely escaped my mind! I was creeping up on the poll limit with the banana option (which I'm surprised has gotten so many thought out answers) so I just kinda rushed it. that is a pretty glaring omission, huh? smh i'll admit, that's my straight privilege blindness showing

[Konja7]

Latino. Peruvian. I am a mixture of races, although I suppose my skin looks relatively white (although not so white either).
Male
Under 35

It doesn't affect my reading experience.


That said, I become a lot more conscious about race after reading this forum.