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  1. #166
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker View Post
    Gotta remember that salty forum posters are the absolute vocal minority. Really liked the way the Braddocks played into Saturnyne's prejudices and horniness. And it was immensely satisfying for Brian to show his loyalty to his siblings and wife.

    Was Saturnyne really played? I think so. I gather most either haven't been reading Excalibur, or not comprehending it, because Tini has been spinning these threads since the beginning. Key among them: Betsy's relationships with Brian and Saturnyne. With Brian, she hasn't felt like he actually supports her taking on the mantle of Captain Britain and instead is treating her like she's babysitting while he decides when he's ready to take it back. And Saturnyne has not been shy about hating on Betsy as CB, even going as far as stating the "choice" that the rightful CB has to make doesn't actually matter. She'd do anything for Betsy not to be her Captain Britain. And they knew that and used it against her.

    All of that culminated into this issue and the cunning plan to take the Starlight Sword from her. Was wonderful. Now, Saturnyne has so far shown to be pretty intelligent, so she may have some other plans up her sleeve. But she isn't omniscient.
    Nope. That you are in minority. That book is just a low quality writing. That`s all. Most people finally see it.

  2. #167
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker View Post
    Gotta remember that salty forum posters are the absolute vocal minority. Really liked the way the Braddocks played into Saturnyne's prejudices and horniness. And it was immensely satisfying for Brian to show his loyalty to his siblings and wife.

    Was Saturnyne really played? I think so. I gather most either haven't been reading Excalibur, or not comprehending it, because Tini has been spinning these threads since the beginning. Key among them: Betsy's relationships with Brian and Saturnyne. With Brian, she hasn't felt like he actually supports her taking on the mantle of Captain Britain and instead is treating her like she's babysitting while he decides when he's ready to take it back. And Saturnyne has not been shy about hating on Betsy as CB, even going as far as stating the "choice" that the rightful CB has to make doesn't actually matter. She'd do anything for Betsy not to be her Captain Britain. And they knew that and used it against her.

    All of that culminated into this issue and the cunning plan to take the Starlight Sword from her. Was wonderful. Now, Saturnyne has so far shown to be pretty intelligent, so she may have some other plans up her sleeve. But she isn't omniscient.
    I don't think this is such a case of a vocal minority leaning towards the negative, i have been here from the start of the series and the dissatisfaction on where the characters have been taken as well as each story line has grown exponentially to the point where i think it is rather a large majority who are very displeased with this book over those in favor of it because from what i have seen on each thread on the 12 issues of X-calibur there has been more negative than positive so the vocal minority is really of those in favor of this book.

    I can't blame tbh, i mean if people like the book that's ok but there is truth in the section of the people who are finding more and more grievances with where they went with this book.

    Also, being frank with, did this cunning plan count of the alternate Rogue, Gambit and Jubilee escaping and the last one being killed by Jammie? Which again why did Betsy not take more outrage over what he did to that version of her friend since she was advocating so heavily on freeing them and making them the new Corp? Even going so far as trying to escape and free them yet so easily trusting Jamie when he came to rescue her? I'm sorry but there was no cunning to be found and the reaction they had Saturnyne have to their actions did not mesh with her portrayal in the other books.
    Last edited by Hulkout42; 10-22-2020 at 12:11 AM.

  3. #168
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Don't mind the negative reactions, most of them come from unhappiness about what's being done with a "fave" rather than an actual criticism to the story.
    This was my original problem with slackers post, you keep trying to paint it as bias which is unfair. I think I would be able to stomach this story more if any of the characters were actually written well, but they are not.

    I don't even really enjoy her writing Psylocke or Rictor, both who have gotten their fair share of screen time. She never developed the core plots set up as "mutant magic", the narrative skips story beats with little rhyme or reason and the dialogue is uninspired. Excalibur is mess and people have been pointing this out since the first couple of issues. They are just more legitimate now because we've had to suffer through 12 issues in.

  4. #169
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    I like when people all basically describe the same thing they’re unhappy about it and it comes down to the writing. You may like Tini’s style and that’s fine. It’s not for me. She IS doing stuff off panel. A majority of things happen OFF PANEL. I’m actually tired of hearing “well it’s obvious”, because it isn’t.

    Example: Brian telling Betsy to take the sword and hide it. Next issue Brian is at the Lighthouse looking for the sword. To me, he’s looking for it and is scared off when Betsy comes outside because he’s ashamed of himself because he wants it. To someone else, Brian took the sword then. Did he? Did he get scared off? It isn’t obvious. Why bother with that scene about him not wanting it and that he’s not worthy of being CB if you’re not going to build on the fact that he DID want it after he gave it Betsy. Now all of a sudden he DOESN’T want it after he was pathetically crawling around in the dark looking for it.

    Tini’s supporters are just filling in the holes looking for the No-prize of the month. She has jumped haphazardly from scene to scene and issue to issue. Betsy is a mess. And she’s my favorite character. Gambit and Rogue are a waste here (also favorites of mine). Jubilee shouldn’t even be in this with a baby. Rictor? I dunno. I like some of the concepts she has done with his powers (not all of them) The only character that is being well written is Apocalypse (good job, because that the only character she WANTS to write). She has a quality cast of characters. Look at Hellions that has all these C-list characters. I’m interested in that book every month and enjoy it.

    I said from the first issue that Tini has some good ideas and concepts, but for me, she’s not executing them well. Rosenberg had some good ideas in that disaster Uncanny run, but they were a mess as well. A writer can have great ideas, but she’s not sticking the landing.
    Last edited by Rnap22; 10-22-2020 at 12:31 AM.

  5. #170
    Spectacular Member Ravyn's Avatar
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    I really dislike Betsy now. She's so unpleasant and bratty.

    Hopefully she'll get killed-off this event and Brian can become the main character of this book.

  6. #171
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I’m almost positive that Krakoa is going to steal Britain’s connection to magic/Otherworld at the end of this, and Betsy will become Captain Krakoa. At least that’s what I hope because it’s really dumb for Betsy to be all entitled to be Captain Britain when 1. She never earned it the way others did and 2. She’s more loyal to Krakoa than Britain. I just find it baffling she’s repping the Union Jack while clearly prioritizing her mutant nature and Krakoan citizenship over her British nationality.

  7. #172
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    Wouldn’t there entire plan have fallen apart if saturnine didn’t keep the sword in her room? How could they’ve have known that? They needed a spy inside the citizen to make this plan make sense

  8. #173
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    I feel like the last bit is foreshadowing that one or both of Betsy and Brian will die. They said she would lose more than she would know, so it makes sense if Brian dies (and cannot be resurrected), she dies and is resurrected as an amalgamation like Rockside was, and Jaimie...remains.

  9. #174
    Focused Totality Psycwave's Avatar
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    I think some people would benefit from going to read all 13 issues in one setting because this book is absolutely not as hard to comprehend as some of you claim and things that are said to happen off panel are literally explained on the page lol. It’s like people saying they don’t understand why Betsy is acting the way she is despite it literally being said on panel that she’s acting out. As much as people would like to blame the writing theres definitely an unfair bias due to treatment of favorite characters (and a little misogyny) that drips from certain posts when it comes to this book.

    It’s also always interesting to see so many of the same posters who claim they’ve dropped the book but are still in the threads just to negatively comment. What’s the truth, dolls?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    I think I'm gonna join the rest of the Rogue, Gambit and Jubilee fans and just drop this mess of a book. I gave it way too many chances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyn View Post
    I really dislike Betsy now. She's so unpleasant and bratty.

    Hopefully she'll get killed-off this event and Brian can become the main character of this book.
    Lol
    Last edited by Psycwave; 10-22-2020 at 04:27 AM.

  10. #175
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnap22 View Post
    I like when people all basically describe the same thing they’re unhappy about it and it comes down to the writing. You may like Tini’s style and that’s fine. It’s not for me. She IS doing stuff off panel. A majority of things happen OFF PANEL. I’m actually tired of hearing “well it’s obvious”, because it isn’t.
    It really is though.

    Brian got the sword back because of the prophecy. Is it really that big of a jump? He kept saying he doesn't want to draw the sword throughout the whole issue, that showed that he was trying to resist it.

  11. #176
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycwave View Post
    As much as people would like to blame the writing theres definitely an unfair bias due to treatment of favorite characters (and a little misogyny) that drips from certain posts when it comes to this book.
    Why can't it be both? Of course no one is going to like if they think their favorites are being mistreated but at least I could enjoy the writing if the other cast were being written well. I don't really care about anyone outside of Kwannon in Hellions and it's been x100 more interesting. Same for certain issues of X-Men.

    Both of those titles were at the bottom of my hype list when they were announced and they've ended being some of my favorite books despite their casts. In the opposite way that Excalibur ended up...

    And please, do not pull the misogny card with no proof of anything. Marvel should hire more female writers (and bring Lui back pls) but not ones who clearly don't read enough books to bother with characterization. Tini having little to no background on the characters was a red flag it seems...

    It’s also always interesting to see so many of the same posters who claim they’ve dropped the book but are still in the threads just to negatively comment. What’s the truth, dolls?
    I've already explained why I'm here.

    Also even when I do drop a book doesn't mean I won't check out review threads every once and awhile, especially since my favorites are being held hostage in this book. Sadly this the only place they are showing up, so I'll keep up to date, I'm just not gonna spend anymore money on this tripe. I've already given it more than it deserved.
    Last edited by ChronoRogue; 10-22-2020 at 04:45 AM.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyn View Post
    I really dislike Betsy now. She's so unpleasant and bratty.

    Hopefully she'll get killed-off this event and Brian can become the main character of this book.
    Perhaps I misunderstood the issue, but didn't the whole Betsy / Brian argumentative bit turn out to be a plan that the two had concocted so that Saturnyne wouldn't realize that they were working together? That's how it seemed to me at the end, when Brian distracted Saturnyne so that Betsy could snag the sword.

    It certainly could have been scripted better, and felt like there were missing bits (that sort of thing was handled much better in Astonishing X-Men, IMO, with a fake conversation at the start of the issue later being re-shown with the secret telepathic plotting shown as well).

  13. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyn View Post
    I really dislike Betsy now. She's so unpleasant and bratty.
    So basically just annoying Princess Betsy from the Outback era. Glad thereís characterization consistency at least when she got her original body back.
    Emma Frost, Rogue, Felicia Hardy, Helena Bertinelli, Barbara Gordon, Monica Rambeau, Carol Danvers, Illyana Rasputin, Ororo Munroe, Harleen Quinzel, Dick Grayson, Kate Kane, Rachel Grey Summers, Gwen Stacy, Wanda Maximoff = PERFECTION!

  14. #179
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycwave View Post
    I think some people would benefit from going to read all 13 issues in one setting because this book is absolutely not as hard to comprehend as some of you claim and things that are said to happen off panel are literally explained on the page lol. Itís like people saying they donít understand why Betsy is acting the way she is despite it literally being said on panel that sheís acting out. As much as people would like to blame the writing theres definitely an unfair bias due to treatment of favorite characters (and a little misogyny) that drips from certain posts when it comes to this book.

    Itís also always interesting to see so many of the same posters who claim theyíve dropped the book but are still in the threads just to negatively comment. Whatís the truth, dolls?
    Yeah people taking their frustrations out on Betsy the character are making me look a lil sideways. I see no problem with Betsy taking on a new role and even embracing it, I just think it needs to be written better. Also, at the end of the day I shouldnít HAVE to reread every issue of Excalibur to enjoy this issue for three reasons:

    1) If your book is released in a monthly format I should be able to enjoy it like that.
    2) If I didnít particularly enjoy it the first time, then why would I reread it?
    3) This is an issue in the middle of a crossover!!! If anything this issue should have more mass appeal than any previous issue of Excalibur. And you canít tell me thatís unfair because every single other writer on this event has managed to make their issues crossover friendly.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    I don't think this is such a case of a vocal minority leaning towards the negative, i have been here from the start of the series and the dissatisfaction on where the characters have been taken as well as each story line has grown exponentially to the point where i think it is rather a large majority who are very displeased with this book over those in favor of it because from what i have seen on each thread on the 12 issues of X-calibur there has been more negative than positive so the vocal minority is really of those in favor of this book.

    I can't blame tbh, i mean if people like the book that's ok but there is truth in the section of the people who are finding more and more grievances with where they went with this book.

    .
    Enjoyment is strange to quantify. It varies so much. Things that I enjoy or things that bug me might not even register for someone else.

    What we can look at are the technical aspects. For example the bad habit of having things happen off-panel or not at all is just lazy writing. When it occurs at this rate it's a problem who has run rampant. In dire need of good editing. It's not a valid technique as much as bad writing is a valid technique. Neither of course does the IQ of the reader matter. That is just trolling comments. Similarily rereading is a luxery that the writer never can count on. Sure it might read better when reread but most customers don't do that. If you are telling a story that to some degree hinges on readers rereading issues then you must give them incentives to do so. Beyond the "it will read better". Make them go back for clues and look at scenes from a different perspective. But that is a perilous path to take. I love David Lynch and I remember watching Mullholland Drive over and over again. With my friends. I would never watch it when alone. For us the discusssion of the movie was very much a large part of our enjoyment.

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