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  1. #46
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I'd honestly just have him come back the UK where he's been on a long trip, and act as if he never died.

    That, or just have Wayne Manor have an actual staff that tends to it (I always assumed it did) and age up Tim Drake to an adult so he can be his confidential hired support guy who cleans up the Batcave.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 10-25-2020 at 04:05 PM.

  2. #47
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I'd honestly just have him come back the UK where he's been on a long trip, and act as if he never died.

    That, or just have Wayne Manor have an actual staff that tends to it (I always assumed it did)
    and age up Tim Drake to an adult so he can be his confidential hired support guy who cleans up the Batcave.
    That seems like too much of a security risk to me.

  3. #48
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That seems like too much of a security risk to me.
    I mean Alfred can't possibly maintain that whole house and cook and take care of the grounds- there has to be a staff.

    Now if we reduce the size of Wayne Manor itself and let Bruce not be a billionaire (not a good look for a superhero) it would make a lot more sense that he and Alfred are the only ones there. I'm down with that.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That seems like too much of a security risk to me.
    I mean Alfred can't possibly maintain that whole house and cook and take care of the grounds- there has to be a staff.

    Now if we reduce the size of Wayne Manor itself and let Bruce not be a billionaire (not a good look for a superhero) it would make a lot more sense that he and Alfred are the only ones there. I'm down with that.
    Bruce has a penthouse in Gotham...he & Alfred moved there when Grayson went to college.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    Bruce has a penthouse in Gotham...he & Alfred moved there when Grayson went to college.
    And Bruce is moving back there again in current continuity

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    And Bruce is moving back there again in current continuity
    I thought it was some brownstone he didn't know he had.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    I thought it was some brownstone he didn't know he had.
    It's not a return in the sense that it's acknowledging a past continuity, but a return as in its reusing the same plot point for the same reason; to slim down and "modernize" Batman.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    It's not a return in the sense that it's acknowledging a past continuity, but a return as in its reusing the same plot point for the same reason; to slim down and "modernize" Batman.
    The heck of it is, his manor was a way more normal-sized home (large, but not what it became later) that he bought in adulthood in early days of Batman. Perfectly suitable, modernity-wise. I do think what it has become has some problematic elements, but then I feel that way about several elements of Gotham and Wayne family history. And there is definitely some advantage to being in town instead of outside town. Though that's moreso the case with heroes that get around by foot (or least, without vehicles or superspeed, so web-slinging counts).

  9. #54
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I mean Alfred can't possibly maintain that whole house and cook and take care of the grounds- there has to be a staff.

    Now if we reduce the size of Wayne Manor itself and let Bruce not be a billionaire (not a good look for a superhero) it would make a lot more sense that he and Alfred are the only ones there. I'm down with that.
    Is there anything Alfred can't do :P?

    I dunno, I never really bought too much into the negativity against Wayne Manor being imposingly enough big or Bruce having a lot of money.

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Is there anything Alfred can't do :P?

    I dunno, I never really bought too much into the negativity against Wayne Manor being imposingly enough big or Bruce having a lot of money.
    For me, it's several things. One is how things creepingly get bigger. Probably wouldn't have as negative an opinion of that if not for the ever-bigger death spectacles. The practicality or keeping the place clean does bug me, but only the tiniest bit.

    The other part is that Bruce's riches have become their own superpower. He doesn't need 50 Batmobiles. And he shouldn't be rich enough for a moonbase (no one should). It's partly BatGod with that, too. He has to be the best and that goes for money, too, when once just ordinary rich was fine. But now, practically no one is allowed to surpass him and he has to be one of the richest in the world. That really bugs me.

    His money has also been used to make other heroes indebted to him - buying Clark and Lois' apartment, the Daily Planet, Jaime's dad's business loan. Even if he doesn't treat it like a debt, it to me, gives him a power over them, and him extra slack with audience that they should excuse his actions, because look what he did for them. It's even worse when done without the knowledge of the person he's "gifting." It unknowingly creates a debt-bond or obligation and I don't like that. It's another way of putting Bruce in a position of power over them.

    The imposingly large manor just ties in with it being a Wayne-family legacy (Bruce's increasing lack of emotional/mental health in moving on) and also with the Wayne's being put further and further back as (one of) the most important families in Gotham. And the evil-from inception Gotham. Which I am not fond of.

    Basically, normalcy, even in the non-superhero aspect of life, just gets further and further away.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Now that 5G has shifted towards Future State, I think bringing back Alfred has become more of a when than an if.

    Considering how critical Tynion has been of how King handled it, I wonder if he'd end his run with bringing Alfred back.
    Here's the how.

    It's terrible.

    Not so long ago, just prior to METAL, Snyder introduces a dumb idea of a young clone of Alfred that wears a dumb armored up Snake-Eyes combat suit and isn't mindless but is, let's be honest, virtually mindless, a puppet with like no identity other than "Some guy sends it to kill people".

    Joker just nanite exhumed and defiled Alfred's body but we have no idea what the brain condition is. And in DEATH METAL Batman has a Black Lantern Ring and an Alt-Bruce Wayne was just doing brain swaps.

    So like ... Batman uses the Black Lantern Ring to revive Real Alfred's brain and place it in Clone Alfred's body and we never speak of this again.

    Or you know ... LAZARUS PIT.
    Retro315 no more. Anonymity is so 2005.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Is there anything Alfred can't do :P?

    I dunno, I never really bought too much into the negativity against Wayne Manor being imposingly enough big or Bruce having a lot of money.
    A lot of it is down to politics these days. As in "Batman can't be a hero if he's a billionaire - and a white, male billionaire to boot".

    That said, I understand the appeal of a more stripped down take on Batman, and I'm interested to see Tynion's take on it in the months ahead.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    A lot of it is down to politics these days. As in "Batman can't be a hero if he's a billionaire - and a white, male billionaire to boot".
    Like I said, for me, he's just too rich - much beyond what originally was or even was in the late pre-COIE days. I do want him to be rich, though, just not the richest duck in the world (or in the top 100). The idea of another "loses his fortune" story doesn't interest me. I really ought to try another go at Batman. Didn't like King. And at first Tynion was going to be short-lived, so I wasn't keen to jump in. But now there's all this Harley talk, and she definitely doesn't belong with the Batfam to me.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-27-2020 at 01:06 PM.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Like I said, for me, he's just too rich - much beyond what originally was or even was in the late pre-COIE days. I do want him to be rich, though, just not the richest duck in the world (or in the top 100). The idea of another "loses his fortune" story doesn't interest me. I really ought to try another go at Batman. Didn't like King. And at first Tynion was going to be short-lived, so I wasn't keen to jump in. But now there's all this Harley talk, and she definitely doesn't belong with the Batfam to me.
    I get where you're coming from.

    In fact, I don't think Batman being a billionaire necessarily means he needs to have satellites and moonbases. It means he can have them (which is handy for Justice League stuff I guess), but would you really need all that when you spend a good 70-80% of your time punching muggers in the East End?

    A good model for the scale at which Batman should be operating is how Team Arrow operates on CW's Arrow. Even when Oliver was still a billionaire in Season 1, the only real equipment he spent his money on were a motorbike and a couple of other vehicles, and computer and lab equipment for his lair.

    Actually, most live-action versions of Batman operate at a relatively modest scale. Take the Nolanverse for instance.

    I suppose the problem is that Batman is a Justice League member, so they kinda need him to have the satellites and moonbases to deal with that level of threat. But the problem occurs when those come into play during his crusade in Gotham.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I suppose the problem is that Batman is a Justice League member, so they kinda need him to have the satellites and moonbases to deal with that level of threat. But the problem occurs when those come into play during his crusade in Gotham.
    Did they originally get the satellite from Thanagarians? Or was that just the tube-like transporters? Of course, that was back before they were bad guys.

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