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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    In my estimate, there's basically two really great Marvel cartoon shows: The Spectacular Spider-Man and X-Men Evolution. Great in the sense I'd rank these two among the best adventure cartoon shows out there whether it's Bruce Timm or the Disney Afternoon shows.

    Know what they both have in common, both were done independently of Marvel by outside professionals in animation, so you had Greg Weisman (of Gargoyles fame among others) doing Spectacular, given freedom by Sony Pictures who produced that completely. Then X-Men Evolution was...I s--t you not...produced by Kids!WB i.e. Warner Bros themselves, way back in the early 2000s when WB was willing to work as a hired gun for a rival comics company.

    The others are good to mediocre in my estimate.

    Kevin Feige did in fact produce Wolverine and the X-Men and that ran for one season and that's actually a good cartoon...also the last X-Men cartoon produced in more than a decade. Gee, I wonder why (*cough* Perlmutter *cough*).

    But essentially, Marvel sees animation as just merchandise commercials for kids. That's it. They don't consider them creative mediums on which they should set a mark. It's basically "Whatup cool kids buy merchandise and here's visual aids". Marvel always exercised historically an unusual level of control on animated adaptations because they wanted to make sure that the cartoons are A) Kid Friendly, B) Merchandise friendly. So animated producers never got freedom to the extent Bruce Timm got at DC/WB. That's why Donald Glover's Deadpool series got cancelled because Marvel (esp. Marvel-Disney) didn't want a foul-mouthed cartoon for teenagers because in their mind animation=kids.
    Marvel also did Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes which is also considered a good series.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The problem is now that Disney owns Marvel, it's a guarantee you are never gonna see serious animation dealing with those properties.

    Disney will never fund a Marvel cartoon with seriousness, violence, and action-based. They have never funded an animation series on that level, and they ain't gonna start now.
    They did with Star Wars: Clone Wars. They're also doing the harder edged animated What if...? on Disney+.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Marvel also did Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes which is also considered a good series.
    Yup. That was a good show.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Exciter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Yup. That was a good show.
    I was shocked at how good it was. Having it cancelled and replaced with a far, far inferior product was very disappointing.
    Age of Marvels and DC Next Dawn - Fan Made Solicitation Games, make your pulls now! Want back story? Check the Wiki!

  5. #35
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    I'm all for this, matter of fact if I could just see a well done Infinity Gauntlet animated from the graphic novel and the simply titled Infinity. I would go to the grave a happy man! I don't think that's too much for Marvel. Hell, now that I think about it. That Secret Wars 2 would also look great as an animated movie.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    apparently there was a fan cohort who absolutely hated the LionsGate adaptations, which, to me was very unfortunate. Same with the anime-based mini-series. I liked them. But you had people complaining that they were "horrible". But of course, soon came the Disney purchase, and the Lionsgate Contract ended. so that was that.

    We've gotten these mostly kiddie-oriented specials since then.

    Marvel has no excuse. Either they want to go further with animation or they don't. Seems like they only rely on network orders for TV series at this point. For whatever dumb reason, the corporate managers figure there's no money in basic PG adaptations for DTV specials.
    Needed: Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Spider-Man, Blade, Thor, Captain America, Black Panther, Champions, Runaways, X-Men & spinoff teams.
    movie

    When you consider that they now have a streaming service, dying comics market, infinite character catalog, and an animation studio. How can you not see that this is where the market is barely tapped potential.

  7. #37
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    Funny thing is that Spider-Man animated films WILL sell. Despite me not trusting Disney when it comes to Spider-Man, I'm actually surprised that they didn't even do a DTV to their successful Ultimate Spider-Man series. Would they adapt a comics storyline? Most likely not...Heck I can't even see that cartoon doing one of the major Spider-Man stories, but just having an animated movie period would have been successful.

    Heck the fact that even Sony hasn't capitalized on churning out Spider-Man animated films when they could kind of baffles me.

  8. #38
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exciter View Post
    I was shocked at how good it was. Having it cancelled and replaced with a far, far inferior product was very disappointing.
    That was just a bad decision to make. They wanted the movie synergy but they already had the main players in A:EMH.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Funny thing is that Spider-Man animated films WILL sell. Despite me not trusting Disney when it comes to Spider-Man, I'm actually surprised that they didn't even do a DTV to their successful Ultimate Spider-Man series. Would they adapt a comics storyline? Most likely not...Heck I can't even see that cartoon doing one of the major Spider-Man stories, but just having an animated movie period would have been successful.

    Heck the fact that even Sony hasn't capitalized on churning out Spider-Man animated films when they could kind of baffles me.
    Could the Sony deal be a reason we’ve never seen a Spider-Man animated DTV from Marvel??

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Direct to video animated movies aimed at adults really doesn’t fit with Disney’s brand image. This is also why I feel The new Blade project in development might disappoint. The only time Disney ever dipped it’s toe into the more mature stuff was under a different name. And they sure as heck aren’t going to use any of their major characters, or try and tie it into the MCU.

  11. #41
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    DC benefitted from Warner Bros Animation and the talent of Bruce Timm to kick everything off. Marvel historically didn't have those two things going for it.

    Marvel did have an opportunity to make more high-quality animation after they were bought by Disney, but Jeph Loeb killed the chance of that happening. Avengers EMH was the only good show that got through, and that was before Loeb came along. (Yes, The Spectacular Spider-Man is also good, but that was a Sony production.)

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    That was just a bad decision to make. They wanted the movie synergy but they already had the main players in A:EMH.
    It was also a decision that didn't make any sense BECAUSE of that fact. Were there any Avengers in the MCU that were not in EMH? Granted, I can see some things not aligning with the movies (i.e. Ant man and Wasp, due to EMH tackling things first...which would be expected that an animated series would need to use more characters than the movies).

    Quote Originally Posted by khrisdrummond View Post
    Could the Sony deal be a reason we’ve never seen a Spider-Man animated DTV from Marvel??
    I can kind of see the fact that Sony still has Spider-Man's movie rights (and thus animated movies apparently) as a deterrent from Marvel/Disney's side...However when it comes to Sony, I'm unsure what their excuse is...Especially when their Spectacular Spider-Man animated series started out as DTVs. (I'm just saying Sony if you happen to come across this post...)

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    It does feel like now we’re in the Disney+ era surely they could knock something up like clone wars or whatever?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvermoth View Post
    It does feel like now we’re in the Disney+ era surely they could knock something up like clone wars or whatever?
    The people currently in charge at Marvel Animation are Quesada and Loeb. Neither of them have expressed interest in making any serious animation. In fact, Loeb went as far as to dumb down their best-produced Marvel show (Avengers EMH) and eventually cancel it. This trend of dumbing everything down and using the cartoons as pure promotional material for the MCU is likely to continue for the near future.

    Marvel's What If? will be animated, but that will be an MCU show. That might actually be good.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 10-23-2020 at 04:51 PM.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    DC benefitted from Warner Bros Animation and the talent of Bruce Timm to kick everything off. Marvel historically didn't have those two things going for it.

    Marvel did have an opportunity to make more high-quality animation after they were bought by Disney, but Jeph Loeb killed the chance of that happening. Avengers EMH was the only good show that got through, and that was before Loeb came along. (Yes, The Spectacular Spider-Man is also good, but that was a Sony production.)
    Funny thing is that Bruce Timm is on record for favoring Marvel over DC as a writer/artist, saying that as a young person he was more a Marvel than a DC guy. There's a lot of Marvel influence in his DCAU stuff...Jack Kirby is obviously a connective tissue via New Gods which he popularized. You also had stories like the Cadmus arc that feels a bit more Marvel in terms of government and societies being paranoid and distrustful towards heroes. Likewise, Timm's version of Lana Lang is basically Mary Jane Watson.

    In addition to Timm, WB also had top notch talent like Andrea Romano the casting director (she was the one who picked Kevin Conroy, got Mark Hamill to voice Joker, Dana Delany to voice Lois, among many many others), Alan Burnett as overall director, and other capable professionals involved with production. WB invested a lot in animation in the early 90s...that included Tiny Toons Adventures, Animaniacs, Freakazoid...there was overlap between that and BTAS and others in some ways. So that meant there was a lot of below-the-line talent they had who could bring their expertise on board to adapt a licensed title.

    Marvel at that time wasn't owned by a big movie-TV company like DC was owned by WB at the time. They hadn't created Marvel Studios yet to handle that...and the MCU has so far cultivated and kept its below-the-line personnel for movies.

    Ultimately Disney needs to take over rather than let Marvel Animation flounder as a separate vertical. Get the crew and team behind their Ducktales 2017 show, Gravity Falls, and other excellent productions they have over to the superhero side.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 10-23-2020 at 04:53 PM.

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