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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, in her actual solo book she felt more reasonably depicted power-wise for someone who was just starting out without coming off as a total rookie (even though she kinda was).
    Ironic she looked so much stronger before it huh? Fucking Slott's ASM Lol

    Not that it's a bad thing, she's better off starting as a rookie, and get better over time, I don't really mind if she eventually becomes a better fighter than Peter, just don't give it to her that easily, and having other characters just saying she's really good feels like undeserved ass kissing, and lazy writing.

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Ironic she looked so much stronger before it huh? Fucking Slott's ASM Lol

    Not that it's a bad thing, she's better off starting as a rookie, and get better over time, I don't really mind if she eventually becomes a better fighter than Peter, just don't give it to her that easily, and having other characters just saying she's really good feels like undeserved ass kissing, and lazy writing.
    That's pretty typical with Slott, everyone use his ideas and concepts better than him.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    The only issue I would have with Harry being sent to hell if this is “Pre OMD” Harry is that his last act was a heroic one. That has to count for something. He always seemed more like a tortured soul instead of his father who was just flat out evil. Still need to have some confirmation as to whether or not SSM 200 is even still canon after OMD.
    Why does everyone forget Life Theft/Pursuit? That was super messed up!

    I don't think Marvel's rules for who goes to Hell are particularly set in stone (nor should they be), and I think it's probably a bad road to go down to tie acts done while mentally ill to eternal damnation, but I think the "good" side of Harry's ledger is somewhat meager and somewhat circumstantial*, too, so I don't think it's necessarily wrong to think the balance of his life gets him sent to Hell**.

    As to Kindred's line that "Hell's got plenty to do with this," I think on balance that hints towards LR ending w/Peter knowing about his and MJ's deal with Mephisto, but that's hardly something I'm 100% on. Harry could have merely meant, "Pete knows I'm Harry and I'm a demon from Hell" (although I feel like I'm grasping a bit to make that argument). As a piece of reckless speculation, I think Spencer pays enough attention to detail that the marriage being traded for Aunt May's life*** will be a critical component of whatever Harry's endgame is. Whether that's revealing everything to Peter and letting him re-choose, or giving Pete and MJ the chance to restore their marriage w/o realizing that May dies when they say yes, I can't say, but I do think May's life will hang in the balance again.

    *Rescuing people from a death trap you designed and put them in is a real mixed bag, morally

    **I like the character, and think he's incredibly interesting, so this isn't a hater comment - I'm just saying in a mostly undetermined afterlife system, it's not hard to see the argument that his life didn't earn him a Heaven.

    ***I remain flummoxed by those that think that Mephisto "beat" Peter. Peter and MJ made a choice they may regret on finding out about it, but this wasn't even one of those tricky Faustian bargains where some horrible other thing happened in the fine print (at least as far as we know - Harry's resurrection certainly could have been a knock on effect, but that's wild conjecture).
    Blue text denotes sarcasm

  4. #34
    Incredible Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob.schoonover View Post
    Why does everyone forget Life Theft/Pursuit? That was super messed up!

    I don't think Marvel's rules for who goes to Hell are particularly set in stone (nor should they be), and I think it's probably a bad road to go down to tie acts done while mentally ill to eternal damnation, but I think the "good" side of Harry's ledger is somewhat meager and somewhat circumstantial*, too, so I don't think it's necessarily wrong to think the balance of his life gets him sent to Hell**.

    As to Kindred's line that "Hell's got plenty to do with this," I think on balance that hints towards LR ending w/Peter knowing about his and MJ's deal with Mephisto, but that's hardly something I'm 100% on. Harry could have merely meant, "Pete knows I'm Harry and I'm a demon from Hell" (although I feel like I'm grasping a bit to make that argument). As a piece of reckless speculation, I think Spencer pays enough attention to detail that the marriage being traded for Aunt May's life*** will be a critical component of whatever Harry's endgame is. Whether that's revealing everything to Peter and letting him re-choose, or giving Pete and MJ the chance to restore their marriage w/o realizing that May dies when they say yes, I can't say, but I do think May's life will hang in the balance again.

    *Rescuing people from a death trap you designed and put them in is a real mixed bag, morally

    **I like the character, and think he's incredibly interesting, so this isn't a hater comment - I'm just saying in a mostly undetermined afterlife system, it's not hard to see the argument that his life didn't earn him a Heaven.

    ***I remain flummoxed by those that think that Mephisto "beat" Peter. Peter and MJ made a choice they may regret on finding out about it, but this wasn't even one of those tricky Faustian bargains where some horrible other thing happened in the fine print (at least as far as we know - Harry's resurrection certainly could have been a knock on effect, but that's wild conjecture).
    I don’t forget it. That was super messed up and I actually liked Life thrift/ pursuit quite a bit. It was definitely one of the biggest emotional blows dealt to Spider-Man.

    As far as OMD goes....Mephisto did win. ThAt was essentially one of many problems with that story. Peter and MJ basically give the “devil” what he wanted. Personally for me that was the main issue I had with the plot...more so then even the marriage ending which I absolutely hated as well. I refuse to believe that there wasn’t some other path to take to get rid of the marriage. Having the hero with the strongest will and biggest heart basically satisfying the needs of the devil...

    Whatever the case though....I am going to take an emotional gamble and get my hopes up that Peter and MJ will have the last laugh at the end of the day .

  5. #35
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortex85 View Post
    Woah, that's one I never thought of...though how could Harry blame Peter if he did the same? Interesting idea though.
    More the fact that Peters life is fine and he is beginning to rekindle his relationship with MJ.

    Maybe Harry sees that as “cheating”, considering it looks he’s definitely paid his dues.

  6. #36
    All-New Member Cindy's Addiction's Avatar
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    Whatever turns you on, but I'm STILL a big fan of Silk. Sorry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  7. #37
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy's Addiction View Post
    Whatever turns you on, but I'm STILL a big fan of Silk. Sorry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    dont need to defend your likes
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

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  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    That's pretty typical with Slott, everyone use his ideas and concepts better than him.
    Reminds me of Len Wein, guy created shit like Wolverine and Swamp Thing, pretty sure there's more, but other writers are the ones who defined the characters better lol.

    Honestly though, one of the things Thompson did to help define Cindy is simple: Making her background matter, under Slott she's someone who was isolated from the world, leaves that bunker and is just fine, no problem with being isolated, doesn't mind the pheronomone thing (Which made her into a molesting creep), and is suddenly important for, something. Thompson just picked her background story of her being isolated in the bunker and showed how it affected her, by making her having a hard time adjusting in a world she hasn't been in for 10 years, without her family and friends, she just felt alone, and that helped to set her apart.

    Also he just deleted the pheronomones power, while I would prefer if a proper explanation was given instead of her outta nowhere not having it (Which I think Spider-Verse does say she still has it in the end), that fucking date rape power is not gonna be missed.

    I still think that Thompson's Silk run is boring, I'm not sure if I read the whole thing or quit midway, but even so, he had the right ideas when writing Cindy, so now she's a character who I'm not going to get annoyed when seeing because of the awful introduction, since she did improve afterwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy's Addiction View Post
    Whatever turns you on, but I'm STILL a big fan of Silk. Sorry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Okay? Nothing wrong with being a Cindy fan.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    I don’t forget it. That was super messed up and I actually liked Life thrift/ pursuit quite a bit. It was definitely one of the biggest emotional blows dealt to Spider-Man.

    As far as OMD goes....Mephisto did win. ThAt was essentially one of many problems with that story. Peter and MJ basically give the “devil” what he wanted. Personally for me that was the main issue I had with the plot...more so then even the marriage ending which I absolutely hated as well. I refuse to believe that there wasn’t some other path to take to get rid of the marriage. Having the hero with the strongest will and biggest heart basically satisfying the needs of the devil...

    Whatever the case though....I am going to take an emotional gamble and get my hopes up that Peter and MJ will have the last laugh at the end of the day .
    Well, if Peter and MJ get married then it’ll be Mephisto who looks like the fool.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if if he sent Kindred because he sensed Peter and MJ were back together and now wants to make sure their relationship stays dead.

  10. #40
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
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    wonder where harry is sending the rest of the order of the web
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    wonder where harry is sending the rest of the order of the web
    To limbo so that they don’t interrupt the story.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    wonder where harry is sending the rest of the order of the web
    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    To limbo so that they don’t interrupt the story.


    Seriously, that was a good one, legit laughed here

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Reminds me of Len Wein, guy created shit like Wolverine and Swamp Thing, pretty sure there's more, but other writers are the ones who defined the characters better lol.

    Honestly though, one of the things Thompson did to help define Cindy is simple: Making her background matter, under Slott she's someone who was isolated from the world, leaves that bunker and is just fine, no problem with being isolated, doesn't mind the pheronomone thing (Which made her into a molesting creep), and is suddenly important for, something. Thompson just picked her background story of her being isolated in the bunker and showed how it affected her, by making her having a hard time adjusting in a world she hasn't been in for 10 years, without her family and friends, she just felt alone, and that helped to set her apart.

    Also he just deleted the pheronomones power, while I would prefer if a proper explanation was given instead of her outta nowhere not having it (Which I think Spider-Verse does say she still has it in the end), that fucking date rape power is not gonna be missed.

    I still think that Thompson's Silk run is boring, I'm not sure if I read the whole thing or quit midway, but even so, he had the right ideas when writing Cindy, so now she's a character who I'm not going to get annoyed when seeing because of the awful introduction, since she did improve afterwards.



    Okay? Nothing wrong with being a Cindy fan.
    I don't remember him deleting those, but i only read her pre-Secret Wars solo. In that i remember a scene when she was shown to be as uncomfortable about it as Peter (quite the contrast with Spider-Verse as you said), i supposed that maybe he got rid of that later.

    Overall, Thompson run was ok for me, at leat what i read of it, but my overall opinion of her is "she's ok now" no more no less. I'm glad that she has her fans thougth.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  14. #44
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I don't remember him deleting those, but i only read her pre-Secret Wars solo. In that i remember a scene when she was shown to be as uncomfortable about it as Peter (quite the contrast with Spider-Verse as you said), i supposed that maybe he got rid of that later.

    Overall, Thompson run was ok for me, at leat what i read of it, but my overall opinion of her is "she's ok now" no more no less. I'm glad that she has her fans thougth.
    I don't remember Thompson acknowledging them in the solo, maybe in like a one-off line in a narration box, but she was usually uncomfortable around Peter because she just...generally didn't seem to like him that much?

    Like there was literally that moment in Clone Conspiracy where Peter was able to tell she wasn't a clone because she was being abrasive towards him .

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob.schoonover View Post
    Why does everyone forget Life Theft/Pursuit? That was super messed up!
    It's not to say it isnt messed up, but drug-riddled Harry was definately not in the right state of mind during this period and making poor judgement calls. He did go to lengths to mess with Parker, but overall this was all done under the pretense of the shadow of his father influencing him and in a deep state of addiction. When he died, we saw the real Harry there again, the one that desperately wanted to always be there and be friends with all those he loved again. We know that Harry is the one Parker remembers, as Spencer has demonstrated in this run via the flashbacks. He still considers Harry a friend, probably not even aware at this point that a different Harry has been existing in hell given he even picked up Normie from Harry this arc during Absolute Carnage(also kinda effed up Kindred stopped his dad from killing Parker but not his son during that arc). Whatever made Kindred has to be directly linked to Parker, and just going off what we knew up to his death, Kindred would have much more of an axe to grind with Norman over Parker all things considered, if Parker's actions didnt somehow condemn him to suffer in hell, and get to the point of brutality Kindred has gotten to in having no problem killing innocents if need be, which to my knowledge Harry never killed anyone.

    Plus like, I'm not really sure what the ethical message is if the story tells you even if you overcome your demons and sacrifice yourself in the process you will end up in hell.

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