Bumble Bee gets love - why not Bette?

[OopsIdiditagain]

Well I mean considering that three aunts are dead, her cousin is a villain, her other two cousins don't treat her very well, she's probably got neglectful parents, most of her friends are dead. Girl's probably got a lot of trauma

I still think trauma shouldn't make characters more angsty. Her books can still have a lighttone despite the trauma she has faced.

[Aahz]

I don't want her made younger and seemingly paired up with another version of Robin - this happened in a future Titans story from a while back. In that story Bette is involved with Tim Drake and apparantly becomes 'Batwoman'.

I think that was originally suposed to be Steph, and they had to replace her at the last minute with Bette because of War Games.

Btw. was there ever a continuity were Tim and Cass ended up together?

[Stanlos]

...I'm not sure how Bumblebee and Betty Kane relate to each other... If anything the fact that DC wants to erase any Batgirl who isn't Barbara Gordon is more of a correlation to Bette's situation.

That is the question I had and the reason I entered this thread. I thought perhaps there was some Titans history I somehow missed. But nope.

[Tsukiakari1203]

I think that was originally suposed to be Steph, and they had to replace her at the last minute with Bette because of War Games.

Btw. was there ever a continuity were Tim and Cass ended up together?

I have never heard anything about Bette replacing Steph, that makes very little sense

Umm there's a story in Solo #10 (i think that's the issue) where Tim and Cass are married but it grossed me out

[Tsukiakari1203]

I still think trauma shouldn't make characters more angsty. Her books can still have a lighttone despite the trauma she has faced.

Except that people have described Bette as being very lonely. I can see her being incredibly happy when with her family but crumbling when alone.

[Tsukiakari1203]

That is the question I had and the reason I entered this thread. I thought perhaps there was some Titans history I somehow missed. But nope.

Karen and Bette were Titians around the same time and Oberon was wondering why Karen got used way more

[Oberon]

I have never heard anything about Bette replacing Steph, that makes very little sense

Umm there's a story in Solo #10 (i think that's the issue) where Tim and Cass are married but it grossed me out

A couple of things. I never felt Steph replaced Bette, either, but it is interesting that they have some resemblance to each other, but Bette is/was retconned to be the 'other' Gotham family/connection.

I don't really know the TT era with Bumble Bee that well, but didn't see her as much of a character in more recent times - - like Bette, forever marginalized.

So I was being snarky when I suggested that BB gets more love than Bette, due to the recent story or things she (Bumble Bee) will be in.

[Aahz]

I have never heard anything about Bette replacing Steph, that makes very little sense

When you consider that steph was killed off right before Titans of Tomorrow, it made sense that they needed a stand in.

[Tsukiakari1203]

When you consider that steph was killed off right before Titans of Tomorrow, it made sense that they needed a stand in.

Except that Steph has no ties to the Titans, Bette does. Also Bette is the logical choice having been Kathy's sidekick.

[Aahz]

Except that Steph has no ties to the Titans, Bette does. Also Bette is the logical choice having been Kathy's sidekick.

Steph being married with Tim would have much more sense than Bette, and Bette had no ties with that Incarnation of Titans.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Steph being married with Tim would have much more sense than Bette, and Bette had no ties with that Incarnation of Titans.

she does though, she and Beast Boy are close friends and were teammates back in the day. Also they were roommates for a while. And Geoff Johns who wrote Titans Tomorrow also wrote the Beast Boy miniseries that had Bette play a major role.

[Oberon]

Well, I'm ill-qualified to understand it all. It seems that this era of Titans with Bette and Beast Boy were probably the last time that Bette interacted with a larger set of the DC universe. With Batwoman, they de-emphasized her character and the throw away line about Deathstroke(?) was changed when that arc was reproduced as a trade paperback.

But that only proves that Rucka, et al were hoping to reinvent her character, or that they saw her figuring into the (then) self-contained Batwoman universe in less specific, to Kate, story. If that makes sense.

Regardless Betty, Bette just goes in and out of whatever era's canon or continuity.

She is pre-Babs Gordon, "Bat-girl", but then forgotten after Silver Age/early '60s until
her brief revival in the old, late '70s Teen Titans.

Then her "continuity" is totally blown/lost after COIEs circa 1985. I can't really remember that she was even a cameo in COIE,
but I believe she has a small cameo or brief appearance in Teen Titans around late '80s with Donna Troy's wedding. I'm not sure the date is right or whether she was sorta appearing before or after this TT wedding issue.

After that is when she starts interacting with Beast Boy.

And after that is when she finally makes it to Batwoman, 2nd version.

So it is the next to last appearances with Beast Boy that I am least familiar with.

If I forgot any significant/any even/appearances or cameos after COIE, more specifically '90s and 2000 towards Batwoman, I probably just don't know them.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Well, I'm ill-qualified to understand it all. It seems that this era of Titans with Bette and Beast Boy were probably the last time that Bette interacted with a larger set of the DC universe. With Batwoman, they de-emphasized her character and the throw away line about Deathstroke(?) was changed when that arc was reproduced as a trade paperback.

But that only proves that Rucka, et al were hoping to reinvent her character, or that they saw her figuring into the (then) self-contained Batwoman universe in less specific, to Kate, story. If that makes sense.

Regardless Betty, Bette just goes in and out of whatever era's canon or continuity.

She is pre-Babs Gordon, "Bat-girl", but then forgotten after Silver Age/early '60s until
her brief revival in the old, late '70s Teen Titans.

Then her "continuity" is totally blown/lost after COIEs circa 1985. I can't really remember that she was even a cameo in COIE,
but I believe she has a small cameo or brief appearance in Teen Titans around late '80s with Donna Troy's wedding. I'm not sure the date is right or whether she was sorta appearing before or after this TT wedding issue.

After that is when she starts interacting with Beast Boy.

And after that is when she finally makes it to Batwoman, 2nd version.

So it is the next to last appearances with Beast Boy that I am least familiar with.

If I forgot any significant/any even/appearances or cameos after COIE, more specifically '90s and 2000 towards Batwoman, I probably just don't know them.

Bette and Beast Boy were Titans West together back when she was Bat-Girl. Bette made her first appearance post COIE in 1989. She had a major role in a Hawk and Dove annual. Was in the Technis Imperative.

Also that Deathstroke line became more badass after they changed it. My friend talks about it here

[Oberon]

I can't say I saw that adventure or remember it. I've seen or remember some isolated panels of her.

So the one with her fighting Cass Cain, and she says Bat-girl, been there, done that, is later than the one you've mentioned. Probably 2000 to 2010 or do you have a chronology of her appearances/some from the annual and story you mention and forward. Thanks, if possible.

[Tsukiakari1203]

I can't say I saw that adventure or remember it. I've seen or remember some isolated panels of her.

So the one with her fighting Cass Cain, and she says Bat-girl, been there, done that, is later than the one you've mentioned. Probably 2000 to 2010 or do you have a chronology of her appearances/some from the annual and story you mention and forward. Thanks, if possible.

Okay, Bette's first post-COIE appearance is in Secret Origins Annual Vol 2 3 which is a retelling of the Teen Titans #50-52 story that saw Titans West form but with a few changes like Bette is Flamebird and some roster changes, it was published in 1989. The story where Bette says "Batgirl eh, been there done that" is Young Justice Vol 1#20-21 which was published in 2000. Bette appeared several times in the years between 1989 and 2000, notably in
* New Titans Vol 1 56 (1989)
* Hawk and Dove Annual Vol 3 1 (1990)
* Team Titans Vol 1 22 & 24 (1994)
* JLA/Titans Vol #1-3 (1998-1999)
* Titans Secret Files and Origins Vol 1 1 (1999)
* Beast Boy Vol 1 1-4 (2000)
* Titans Annual Vol 1 1 (2000)

I have recommended reading so here it is