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  1. #1
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    Default If Trump Wins Re-Election - Will It Be The End Of America?

    If Trump wins re-election do you fear America is doomed with no hope of salvation? Is Democracy forever dead along with the thousands of Americans that have perished under the virus? I like to think of myself as an eternal optimist but for myself if Trump were to win re-election, I think I may become an eternal pessimist. What do you think?
    Last edited by Amadeus Arkham; 10-23-2020 at 06:59 PM.
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  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Since he would be elected without the majority vote, and probably through fixing it through the Courts or more nefarious ways, American Democracy would no longer exist as we know it.
    Four More years of Trump would do irrevocable damage.
    Last edited by Kirby101; 10-24-2020 at 07:34 AM.
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  3. #3
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Serious question...

    Could you define, in detail, this America that would be getting "Doomed..."?

    Would it be...

    - The one where former President Obama was executing Americans without an actual trial? Where he ramped up deportations?

    - The one where former President Bush took America into war without an actual declaration? Jailed folks indefinitely without trial?

    - The one where former President Clinton set the stage for mass incarceration and set the stage for jobs to wind up in countries that laugh at environmental standards?

    Any of the above that made everything from Mexico south more dangerous because of an ongoing war on drugs?

  4. #4

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    No, ultimately he will simply serve another 4 year term, unless he can overturn the two term limit which I think would ultimately serve Democrats in the end.

    After all, the 22nd amendment was drafted by a former Republican President, and approved by a Republican congress to prevent another popular Democratic President like FDR from winning consecutive terms. If both Barak O Bama and Bill Clinton were allowed to run for a third term I think they both would have ultimately beat Trump and Bush, so I think it's a silly rule that should be retracted.

    The damage of Trump second term, would most likely take the form of legislative tampering to prevent transparency to hide corruption & insulate Trump from wrongdoing, a ballooning debt and deficit as a result of tax cuts and continued exorbitant defense spending, the continued appointments of Republicans to the court, which would kill any attempt to put limitations on corporate donations to election campaigns as well political lobbying (Ie the swamp) and finally, last but not least, a continued rise of left and right wing extremist groups as Trump panders to one, in order to delibertaly inflame the other.

  5. #5

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    His niece says yes, so I'm just gonna agree with her since she'd know.
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  6. #6
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    If Trump wins, then he does his 4 years. The US won't be doomed.

    However, there will be something of a crisis of legitimacy because American policy and law for generations would be shaped by a minority of voters (there's literally no way Trump win the popular vote). It's going to become increasingly problematic when stuff like healthcare, abortion rights, civil rights, workers rights is determined by a handful of states that don't reflect majority of the country at all.
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  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    I read an expert say that 4 more years of Trump would make climate change irreversible and speed its effects up.

    So it's more than just the US that would come to an untimely end.
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  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Kusanagi's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say doomed, but more damaged absolutely. How damaged will likely be determined by the impact of supreme court.

    Some things I would expect if he wins and Republicans hold the senate, obviously if he wins and Republicans lose the Senate it's an entirely different outcome.

    1: He's almost certainly going to lose the popular vote again, which is bad enough for the trust in democracy, but if he has to go to the courts to get his second term the results aren't going to be pretty.
    2: Roe vs. Wade will face it's most real challenge, and I could see abortion outlawed in red states, and under threat in purple ones (depending on state legislature and governors)
    3: The covid crisis will be exacerbated, I believe it will be a bad winter regardless of who wins but Trump's shown no signs of changing course on ignoring the issue when it doesn't directly affect him, and I wouldn't trust him to handle any vaccine deployment.
    4: Tied to 3 expect the ACA to be gutted if not entirely killed off, which may include eliminating protections for those with pre existing conditions, and I doubt any replacement health care bill will be forthcoming soon.
    5: No action from the United States on climate change, possible we double or triple down on fossil fuels which will likely have disastrous effects for everyone.
    6: The looming threat of white nationalist terrorists will continue, and likely worsen, emboldened by a president who at best turns a blind eye and at worst endorses them.

    Now can the United States as a whole survive these things? I believe so, but I would expect already steep divides to deepen and the Culture Wars to worsen. Trump might not be the end of the United States, but he could be the beginning of the end. Though to be fair it wouldn't shock me if the US split apart in my lifetime, Trump or no Trump, he just increases the odds, and hastens the timeline imo.
    Last edited by Kusanagi; 10-24-2020 at 08:23 AM.
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  9. #9
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    If Trump remains in office after losing the vote because his Supreme Court stops the vote count and/or a few State Legislators give their electors to Trump after the State votes for Biden, how is that not the end of American Democracy?
    These are both scenarios Trump is actively pursuing.
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  10. #10

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    seems like a longshot of him winning but no not doomed just further political division with a booming meme economy

  11. #11
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    As a Canadian, I've grown up with this myth that the American system of government is far superior and more democratic than our constitutional monarchy parliamentary democracy. Supposedly, there are so many checks and balances in the American system that no despot could rule for long without being thrown out of office.

    In the last four years, the U.S. has put on a demonstration sport of how each of these checks and balances can easily be undermined--turns out it's super-easy.

    If I was a citizen of the U.S.--and the final check on Trump's power (getting voted out of office) failed to throw him out--I'd be thinking this system is useless and there's no bureaucratic instrument to stop the President from doing whatever the hell he wants.

    The only option for regular folks seems to be trying to avoid getting killed as best you can or taking direct action to overthrow the government and change the system. Trump has shown people that peaceful means don't work--so what else is one to do but try the non-peaceful means?

    Either way--living North of you guys--I think my country is screwed. Whatever happens, should Trump remain in office, your mess is going to spill over the border and foul things up here. And there's nothing we can do to stop that.
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  12. #12
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    No, America wouldn’t be “doomed”.

    Let’s accept for sake of argument he’s been a bad President. But actually the checks and balances in the American system have profoundly limited the amount of damage he’s done. He hasn’t caused a major war. Compared to half a dozen or more other fairly recent ( in historical terms) figures he’s practically a saint.

    I don’t believe he’s had much real impact on things like global warming, world food supply, etc. (Another American President would have talked a better game, signed more agreements, etc...but those agreements would have been ignored by the signatories and the burning of fossil fuel, etc would carry on unabated.)

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    No, America wouldn’t be “doomed”.

    Let’s accept for sake of argument he’s been a bad President. But actually the checks and balances in the American system have profoundly limited the amount of damage he’s done. He hasn’t caused a major war. Compared to half a dozen or more other fairly recent ( in historical terms) figures he’s practically a saint.

    I don’t believe he’s had much real impact on things like global warming, world food supply, etc. (Another American President would have talked a better game, signed more agreements, etc...but those agreements would have been ignored by the signatories and the burning of fossil fuel, etc would carry on unabated.)
    what

    ..............
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  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    A second Trump term would mean severe and irreversible changes in the climate

    But let’s be clear: If Trump is reelected president, the likely result will be irreversible changes to the climate that will degrade the quality of life of every subsequent generation of human beings, with millions of lives harmed or foreshortened. That’s in addition to the hundreds of thousands of lives at present that will be hurt or prematurely end.

    This sounds like exaggeration, some of the “alarmism” green types are always accused of. But it is not particularly controversial among those who have followed Trump’s record on energy and climate change.

    “As bad as it seems right now,” says Josh Freed of Third Way, a center-left think tank, “the climate and energy scenario in Trump II would be much, much worse.”
    Lots of facts and sources at the link.
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  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    And unless Biden decides to expand the Supreme Court, these are some of the rulings that have a good chance of being overturned.
    Roe v Wade (definitely will be gone, it's why Barret is being put there)
    Obergefell (Gay marriage)
    Grisworld (right to privacy and birth control)
    Brown v Board of Ed.
    Reinterpret the 14th Amendment to do away with birthright citizenship.
    Rule Medicare and Social Security Unconstitutional.

    These have been the stated goals of the Federalist Society, where these Justices come form.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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