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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    That is very true. There are people in my family that I know would react very differently if we could somehow get abortion off the table as an issue in this election. In fact, a friend of mine thinks Trump would lose a significant amount of support, especially evangelical support, if it wasn't for that issue.
    I know this for a fact. The only reason why many Evangelicals can even stomach the guy is because they want to get rid of abortion.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    I know this for a fact. The only reason why many Evangelicals can even stomach the guy is because they want to get rid of abortion.
    Blimey, you mean there are some people of voting age that havenít worked that Donald has done precisely nothing on this issue in his first term, and will do exactly the same if by any chance he gets a second?

    I suspect the Donald is as about as religious as I am...which is, to say, zero belief. (Though I suppose if I got as much luck as he has I might believe the Mysterious One was working on my behalf.)

  3. #78
    Amazing Member Adam Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    That is very true. There are people in my family that I know would react very differently if we could somehow get abortion off the table as an issue in this election. In fact, a friend of mine thinks Trump would lose a significant amount of support, especially evangelical support, if it wasn't for that issue.
    Well, we should all start telling all of those people they can rejoice, and happily vote Trump out of office, now. With Barrett in place, Trump is no longer needed to get rid of abortion.

    Hey, here's a thought everyone: If Trump is re-elected, maybe it should be the end of America? Maybe we should all take it as a wake-up call that the system as exists is not going to be able to work for the best interests of the majority of the people?

    Because really, if he wins this year, how should we imagine the political machine being in better shape to reject corruption, going forward? Like those in power will become less committed to keeping it, or less willing to cheat?
    Be kind to me, or treat me mean
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  4. #79
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Blimey, you mean there are some people of voting age that haven’t worked that Donald has done precisely nothing on this issue in his first term, and will do exactly the same if by any chance he gets a second?

    I suspect the Donald is as about as religious as I am...which is, to say, zero belief. (Though I suppose if I got as much luck as he has I might believe the Mysterious One was working on my behalf.)
    He gave them what they have always wanted, a Supreme Court that will now make abortion illegal in the United States.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    He gave them what they have always wanted, a Supreme Court that will now make abortion illegal in the United States.
    Can the Supreme Court really do that?

    I understand in complex areas that the Supreme Court can often effectively create law by establishing precedents that lower courts have to follow.

    But surely there are limits to that: if the 2 houses make it clear by passing laws that do allow abortion in given circumstances, the Supreme Court has to make decisions within that established framework...the Court can not, must not, act against the expressed legitimate will of the 2 houses.
    Last edited by JackDaw; 10-28-2020 at 12:33 PM.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Can the Supreme Court really do that?

    I understand in complex areas that the Supreme Court can often effectively create law by establishing precedents that lower courts have to follow.

    But surely there are limits to that: if the 2 houses make it clear by passing laws that do allow abortion in given circumstances, the Supreme Court has to make decisions within that established framework...the Court can not, must not, act against the expressed legitimate will of the 2 houses.
    Well the court has the power to strike down any law it wants as unconstitutional, since the wording is usually vague enough to cook up an argument that suits the wishes of the justices. The only way to overrule them is to pass a constitutional amendment that spells out the legality of a specific point in explicit terms, but the requirements of 2/3rds majorities in both houses just to propose and 3/4ths of state legislatures to ratify means that's effectively impossible in the current political climate. Without some kind of court packing scheme, the conservative justices can and will strike down every single initiative of a Biden administration or that of any future Democratic president, and as they are all relatively young this will likely be the case for the next 30 years or so at least. The other option, of course, is to simply pull an Andrew Jackson and ignore the court's decisions entirely as it has no power to actually enforce any of its rulings, though of course this would end up breaking the system of checks and balances by rendering the judicial branch irrelevant.

  7. #82
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    He gave them what they have always wanted, a Supreme Court that will now make abortion illegal in the United States.
    But they won't. The Court has had chances to do this, while having a conservative majority, and it never has happened. The activist judge thing is just a cultural boogeyman.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    But they won't. The Court has had chances to do this, while having a conservative majority, and it never has happened. The activist judge thing is just a cultural boogeyman.
    They could. All they have to do is lean into Powers Reserved Unto The States dialog the next time a Dixie State gets sued for passing a hyper restrictive law and they'll rip it out of some very large sections of the country.

    What's even more likely is that they'll approve the gutting of the ACA, and quite possibly, Social Security. The Federalist Society (who has steered all three of the last SCOTUS nominations) hates those two programs with a vehemence that can not be overstated.

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    The Court can make abortion illegal by conferring rights to embryos. The earlier conservative majority courts had Justices that were more centrist, like Kennedy and O'Connor. We now have four Justices that would make abortion illegal, with only Gorsuch and Roberts in question, and they only need one of them.
    Trump has stated he would only appointed Justi9ces that would overturn Roe, he has now appointed 3.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  10. #85
    Fantastic Member slop101's Avatar
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    If he wins, my wife and I will probably move to Canada (or Spain).
    The US (the way we know it to be) cannot stand another 4 year of trump - it wouldn't recover.

    Pretty sure he's gonna lose though, same with the GOP Senate (though I'm not as confident about that)

  11. #86
    The Undead One The Chou Lives's Avatar
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    Getting my friends in Texas to vote blue. Do sticking it to the man that way.

    But yeah if the GOP get their monster win. It proofs the system has become too flawed and the American people lost what America is.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    Hey, here's a thought everyone: If Trump is re-elected, maybe it should be the end of America? Maybe we should all take it as a wake-up call that the system as exists is not going to be able to work for the best interests of the majority of the people?

    Because really, if he wins this year, how should we imagine the political machine being in better shape to reject corruption, going forward? Like those in power will become less committed to keeping it, or less willing to cheat?
    Destroying America a as it is won't stop political corruption or the entrenched racism and sexism on the cultural scale and it could get worse for everyone in varying ways. Replacing America with another country without addressing the causes that hurt America just keeps the status quo with a new name tag, separating the country into various nation states means marginalised groups will have more difficulty acquiring resources and we'd be getting wars with the conservative states who will regress to Confederacy-lite. There are no easy answers here.

    There wouldn't be a "wake up call" that would a victory for the conservatives having won everything.

  13. #88
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    I find it hard to believe that even those people who are in favour of his policies, really want this 24/7 Trump show blasting in their ears for another four years. He's just so exhausting. Don't people get tired of it? Even rock stars take time off between concert tours.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I find it hard to believe that even those people who are in favour of his policies, really want this 24/7 Trump show blasting in their ears for another four years. He's just so exhausting. Don't people get tired of it? Even rock stars take time off between concert tours.
    Thing is, IMO, Trumpers are no more a monolithic bloc than any other political group. There's those that want abortion gone at any cost; they know he's horrible, but want the judges the Federalist Society tells him to appoint, and they tell themselves it will all be for the greater good. Then there's the folks that ease their various frustrations by vicariously casting themselves in his faux John McClane tuff talk persona. Next up are the Let's Break Civilization And Play Mad Max bunch, who vary between viewing him as a messiah, and merely finding him useful. Then there are the Ayn Rand fans (only a miniscule fraction of whom actually belong to what she would have deemed the superior), who mainly want any inconvenient rules and (especially) taxes gone.

    That's just the short list. The only thing they've got in common is that they don't care if somebody gets crushed if they get what they want. They'd vehemently deny bigotory, they just don't care if it takes a bigot to get it done for them.

  15. #90
    Horrific Experiment JCAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Can the Supreme Court really do that?

    I understand in complex areas that the Supreme Court can often effectively create law by establishing precedents that lower courts have to follow.

    But surely there are limits to that: if the 2 houses make it clear by passing laws that do allow abortion in given circumstances, the Supreme Court has to make decisions within that established framework...the Court can not, must not, act against the expressed legitimate will of the 2 houses.
    The way the Supreme Court is set up, it has the power to declare the Law itself illegal.

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