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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    The JSA has more magic based characters. Dr. Fate, Green Lantern, Spectre. At least two of those could take Superman alone.
    All three of them could. The Spectre and probably Dr. Fate could take the entire JLA by themselves. And in fact did in a one shot with Rayner as the GL and Wally as Flash. Alan...at top form can take on most of the Earth based heroes..and did in one of Robinson's stories.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Which is kind of the problem. Titans, Doom Patrol, every team that isn’t the Justice League, they’re all “we’re a family!” which means none of them really stand out as anything but B-Listers. The League is the premiere team that handles the “real” threats while everyone else fights second rate bad guys. It’s harsh but it’s true.
    Hmmm that's kinda true. Doom Patrol at least have a pretty clear niche.

  3. #18
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Hmmm that's kinda true. Doom Patrol at least have a pretty clear niche.
    Doom Patrol works because they’re not just about family. They’re also about outcasts, mental health, and lots of other issues your mainstream cape books don’t touch. And the kind of stuff they deal with is way too damn weird for the Justice League. Can you imagine the League going up against Mr. Nobody and the Brotherhood of Dada? So there’s definitely a strong reason to keep the DP around.

  4. #19
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Which is kind of the problem. Titans, Doom Patrol, every team that isn’t the Justice League, they’re all “we’re a family!” which means none of them really stand out as anything but B-Listers. The League is the premiere team that handles the “real” threats while everyone else fights second rate bad guys. It’s harsh but it’s true.
    That what I'm saying. When people go around saying "the titans belong together because they're a family" im like who isn't.

  5. #20
    Fantastic Member ultradav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Which is kind of the problem. Titans, Doom Patrol, every team that isn’t the Justice League, they’re all “we’re a family!” which means none of them really stand out as anything but B-Listers. The League is the premiere team that handles the “real” threats while everyone else fights second rate bad guys. It’s harsh but it’s true.
    I don't see it as a problem. It's just how they operate internally. All of those teams have saved humanity at one point or another. To the contrary, maybe it says something about the Justice League that they don't really have a defining team characteristic other than "really popular heroes fighting big threats".

  6. #21
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    Yeah, I think the quality of the storytelling and the threats being treated as legitimate matter more than trying to match the Justice League. At least in my opinion.

  7. #22
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    I think the family feel is probably the most notable. I suppose decades ago the JLA had that feel when it was Clark Hal, Ollie, Barry, Palmer, ect, and they were all best buds, but now its more of a revolving cast, big three aside.

    someone mentioned magic, which is true, but I think the most notable thing is...

    that they are always sort of underestimated by the villains. The elders experience is invaluable (Jay/Alan) , and realistically they are probably the only team in the present (Minus JLD) that could go toe to toe with the JLA and take them out on a good day.

  8. #23
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    The JSA is more wholesome.

    JLA mostly just reminds me of co workers.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by M L A View Post
    The JSA is more wholesome.

    JLA mostly just reminds me of co workers.
    Putting it another way, the JSA are the bunch most people would want to spend time with.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Which is kind of the problem. Titans, Doom Patrol, every team that isn’t the Justice League, they’re all “we’re a family!” which means none of them really stand out as anything but B-Listers. The League is the premiere team that handles the “real” threats while everyone else fights second rate bad guys. It’s harsh but it’s true.
    That’s because “anyone” can be a JL member. You just have to take a bunch of popular characters and put them in the League. The JSA’s roster actually has to matter.

    On one hand, that enables the JL writers to use whatever’s story they want, but it also makes them less defined than the JSA.

  11. #26
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    A lot depends on whether the Justice Society can have their own Earth or not. As long as they have their own world to work with, there's no limit to what characters can be on their team (in that world). And they can pull from the biggest stars on that Earth (including Superman, Batman, Robin and Wonder Woman).

    When they have to share an Earth with the Justice League--they get the leftovers. They have to give up their characters to the League. Or the League has to give up characters like Black Canary and Hawkman to them. The Society has to let in characters that really shouldn't be on their team. It's a dog's breakfast.

  12. #27
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    The big problem with the DCU is the Justice League is unabashedly the most important team in-universe. That’s not the case over at Marvel. They’ve got the Avengers as the kinda “premiere” (thanks to the MCU) but also the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, the MCU elevated the Guardians of the Galaxy, even the Defenders and the Inhumans got a push for a while. Marvel has multiple teams that are more or less on equal footing with each other.

    At DC all the big events revolve around either the League itself or Leaguers solo sides. There hasn’t been a big Titans or Legion of Superheroes or Young Justice or whatever type event for a while. There was that Doom Patrol event, Milk Wars, but Doom Patrol is weird and your average casual can’t stand it. I love DP and am grateful for the show’s success but I can’t see them at the center of the DCU no matter how much I wish otherwise. They’re the weirdos on the periphery and always will be.

    It also doesn’t help that the Titans/YJ are treated as basically the kids getting together to hopefully one day be good enough for the League. JSA is pretty much the same, the old timers who are way past their prime training the next gen. Except even there the next gen will never replace even the guys who weren’t popular enough to carry over like the Trinity did.

    Hot take but I think part of the reason for the Doom Patrol’s success is
    1. They’ve got a clear mission statement about who they are, what they’re about, and what they fight, and they fill a niche the League can’t
    2. No Bat or Super or Wonder brats on the team. That means no scenes of Batman showing up to lecture the “leader” in front of his team and make it clear they’re viewed as an ancillary branch of the League (aka what happens in Titans/TT with Dick and Damian all the time)
    They’re a totally independent team that does it’s own thing without giving a damn for the League and that’s why they’re great while the other teams flounder in the shadow of the League.

    Edit: Oh wow I completely forgot the Suicide Squad lmao. Shows how much of an impact they made but I can understand why DC and WB push them for the same reason as the Doom Patrol. Suicide Squad has a clear reason for being, has a completely different set up and jurisdiction to the League, and they aren’t under the League’s thumb instead operating completely independently. Honestly if the Squad wasn’t mainly the “Harley Quinn and Her Wacky Pals (Most of Whom Are Batman Rogues)” these days, I’d probably like them a lot more. There’s definitely potential there, and an opportunity to make use of one of the things DC has over Marvel: Their villains are better.
    Last edited by Vordan; 10-25-2020 at 11:10 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The big problem with the DCU is the Justice League is unabashedly the most important team in-universe. That’s not the case over at Marvel. They’ve got the Avengers as the kinda “premiere” (thanks to the MCU) but also the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, the MCU elevated the Guardians of the Galaxy, even the Defenders and the Inhumans got a push for a while. Marvel has multiple teams that are more or less on equal footing with each other.

    At DC all the big events revolve around either the League itself or Leaguers solo sides. There hasn’t been a big Titans or Legion of Superheroes or Young Justice or whatever type event for a while. There was that Doom Patrol event, Milk Wars, but Doom Patrol is weird and your average casual can’t stand it. I love DP and am grateful for the show’s success but I can’t see them at the center of the DCU no matter how much I wish otherwise. They’re the weirdos on the periphery and always will be.

    It also doesn’t help that the Titans/YJ are treated as basically the kids getting together to hopefully one day be good enough for the League. JSA is pretty much the same, the old timers who are way past their prime training the next gen. Except even there the next gen will never replace even the guys who weren’t popular enough to carry over like the Trinity did.

    Hot take but I think part of the reason for the Doom Patrol’s success is
    1. They’ve got a clear mission statement about who they are, what they’re about, and what they fight, and they fill a niche the League can’t
    2. No Bat or Super or Wonder brats on the team. That means no scenes of Batman showing up to lecture the “leader” in front of his team and make it clear they’re viewed as an ancillary branch of the League (aka what happens in Titans/TT with Dick and Damian all the time)
    They’re a totally independent team that does it’s own thing without giving a damn for the League and that’s why they’re great while the other teams flounder in the shadow of the League.

    Edit: Oh wow I completely forgot the Suicide Squad lmao. Shows how much of an impact they made but I can understand why DC and WB push them for the same reason as the Doom Patrol. Suicide Squad has a clear reason for being, has a completely different set up and jurisdiction to the League, and they aren’t under the League’s thumb instead operating completely independently. Honestly if the Squad wasn’t mainly the “Harley Quinn and Her Wacky Pals (Most of Whom Are Batman Rogues)” these days, I’d probably like them a lot more. There’s definitely potential there, and an opportunity to make use of one of the things DC has over Marvel: Their villains are better.
    I'd point out that this is the main issue in the comics but not necessarily adaptations. Titans are still strong in t.v. adaptations (even the new show still has significant success). So the JSA's best hope is probably getting a show of their own which they more or less have with Stargirl.

  14. #29
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'd point out that this is the main issue in the comics but not necessarily adaptations. Titans are still strong in t.v. adaptations (even the new show still has significant success). So the JSA's best hope is probably getting a show of their own which they more or less have with Stargirl.
    I agree and it’s a pretty damning indictment of DC Comics that they’ve done so poor a job at building up teams like the Titans despite their success in animation or live action. Part of the blame lies with Didio I think. We’ll see if his departure means the Titans, JSA, etc can finally start equaling the League in importance. I would like to have an event where one of the other teams takes point and leads the charge. That’s usually a good way to show “this character/team matters and is important” like how Sinestro Corps War and Blackest Night made casuals take notice of GL and Flashpoint made casuals take notice of Flash (quality aside).

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The big problem with the DCU is the Justice League is unabashedly the most important team in-universe. That’s not the case over at Marvel. They’ve got the Avengers as the kinda “premiere” (thanks to the MCU) but also the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, the MCU elevated the Guardians of the Galaxy, even the Defenders and the Inhumans got a push for a while. Marvel has multiple teams that are more or less on equal footing with each other.

    At DC all the big events revolve around either the League itself or Leaguers solo sides. There hasn’t been a big Titans or Legion of Superheroes or Young Justice or whatever type event for a while. There was that Doom Patrol event, Milk Wars, but Doom Patrol is weird and your average casual can’t stand it. I love DP and am grateful for the show’s success but I can’t see them at the center of the DCU no matter how much I wish otherwise. They’re the weirdos on the periphery and always will be.

    It also doesn’t help that the Titans/YJ are treated as basically the kids getting together to hopefully one day be good enough for the League. JSA is pretty much the same, the old timers who are way past their prime training the next gen. Except even there the next gen will never replace even the guys who weren’t popular enough to carry over like the Trinity did.

    Hot take but I think part of the reason for the Doom Patrol’s success is
    1. They’ve got a clear mission statement about who they are, what they’re about, and what they fight, and they fill a niche the League can’t
    2. No Bat or Super or Wonder brats on the team. That means no scenes of Batman showing up to lecture the “leader” in front of his team and make it clear they’re viewed as an ancillary branch of the League (aka what happens in Titans/TT with Dick and Damian all the time)
    They’re a totally independent team that does it’s own thing without giving a damn for the League and that’s why they’re great while the other teams flounder in the shadow of the League.

    Edit: Oh wow I completely forgot the Suicide Squad lmao. Shows how much of an impact they made but I can understand why DC and WB push them for the same reason as the Doom Patrol. Suicide Squad has a clear reason for being, has a completely different set up and jurisdiction to the League, and they aren’t under the League’s thumb instead operating completely independently. Honestly if the Squad wasn’t mainly the “Harley Quinn and Her Wacky Pals (Most of Whom Are Batman Rogues)” these days, I’d probably like them a lot more. There’s definitely potential there, and an opportunity to make use of one of the things DC has over Marvel: Their villains are better.
    I agree with this, which is why I think all major DC teams should get their own unique mission statements so they're not always stepping on each other's toes or playing second fiddle to the League.

    JSA: the protectors of the superhero community: mentoring their legacies would be just a small portion of the JSA's role. They'd be the ones using all their knowledge of the DCU's history and its villains to be one step of ahead of new threats to the superhumans they inspired. Their mission would be to make sure the world is never left without heroes.

    JUSTICE LEAGUE: Earth's defense against global-scale threats. These are some of the busiest heroes around. They all have big responsibilities in their solo careers, so whenever they need to get together, it's because they truly are needed. The membership would be the size of the satellite era, but most times 7 heroes would join each mission.

    TITANS: They're some of the most competent heroes around, having trained since their childhood to become the best heroes they can be. Their purpose: being the heroes people can count on. After having designed a means to receive distress calls from all over the world from people in danger, the Titans network could be anywhere in the world in seconds, ready to face any threats local police forces couldn't.

    YOUNG JUSTICE: JL's trainees and support team. Ready to step up whenever needed, Tim, Cassie, Impulse, Kon-El, Aqualad and co. are the heroes of today.

    No Teen Titans. Damian's generation would be the SUPER FRIENDS, but they wouldn't act as an official superteam yet. Instead, they'd be touring the DCU alongside their baby sitters the Wonder Twins and RT to learn all they need to know about the world they will one day protect.

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