Rank these characters!

[Cronus]

Two pages after the part where they broke the planet, in issue 634.

"You've locked him here in the dark dimension with the woman he's always so desperately loved and hated and who's now just as powerful as he. Free from fear of hurting her, free from fear of his own rage. He's finally at peace in his own insane way."

Tyrannus is explaining how the villain's wishes got Monkey's pawed, and adds in that the situation is also a monkey's paw of what Bruce wants. The implication is pretty obvious

Okay, so that is a fantastic twisting of the narration. Bruce never parsed the wish you are asserting he did.

Bruce was freed from fear of hurting her (permanently, she died only to be resurrected repeatedly in that story along with Bruce) because she was being resurrected over and over. And then strangely, you go on to say this...

Because, and I have already explained this to you, THE HULK MADE THE WISH THAT AMPED UP RED SHE-HULK.

Yes, I know this.

Your the one who has been claiming that the wishing well amped up the Hulk. So that is exactly the statement you are making an failing to back up.

So, why was Red She Hulk amped, but not Bruce? Can you explain?

Don't complain someone else pointed out the glaring logical fallacy in your argument.

You pointed out nothing of the sort.

This entire time, you have been insisting that the Hulk making a wish means he got amped up, and that is just has ludicrous.

It's completely on point because you've failed to explain why Bruce wasn't amped but Red She Hulk, Bi Beast and Wendigo for example, all were amped. What happened there?

Oh right. Monkey paws.

Also, I already told you I READ THE ISSUES. So don't try to pretend that I didn't.

I mean, at this point, "you read them, you didn't read them", who cares?

Again, why was Bruce not amped, but Red She Hulk was? How did Bruce fight evenly earlier with Bi Beat and Wendigo, not one...but two already class 100's...that were amped....a 1000 x....but Bruce fought evenly without an amp.

Riighggttt.

Good grief. Like a Donald Trump interview.

To be continued later.

[Jcogginsa]

Good grief. Like a Donald Trump interview.

Okay, if you're just gonna throw out insults, then I'm done with you.

[Cronus]

Okay, if you're just gonna throw out insults, then piss off.

Yeah I never insulted you personally, sensitive much?
Particularly when you get cornered?

So? How were they amped but Bruce wasnt? Answer?

[Jcogginsa]

Yeah I never insulted you personally, sensitive much?
Particularly when you get cornered?

So? How were they amped but Bruce wasnt? Answer?

Because no one ever made a wish that would have amped up Bruce. It's an incredibly simple concept.

Bruce's power up is explained entirely by "He's using the most powerful form of the Hulk, which is retroactively revealed to be even stronger than it's previous depiction by stating that he was holding back in WWH". It's not a shocker that guys who couldn't beat the regular Hulk wind up needing massive power boosts in order to fight the single most powerful form of Hulk.

[Cronus]

Because no one ever made a wish that would have amped up Bruce. It's an incredibly simple concept.

Yet as you clearly state above, his wish made Jen stronger...so why would the wishing well magic...in force through Bruce's wish..work on Jen but not Bruce, particularly when it was Bruce's wish?

Bruce's power up is explained entirely by "He's using the most powerful form of the Hulk,

Speculation with no proof outside the context of "wishing well"

which is retroactively revealed to be even stronger than it's previous depiction

Er...wut.

?

by stating that he was holding back in WWH".

Statements, shmatements. WW Hulk was holding back from going full WB. Yeah so I've heard...but more importantly...have not seen. There are statements...there are feats. Show me Hulk world breaking outside the context of errant wishing well magic.

It's not a shocker that guys who couldn't beat the regular Hulk wind up needing massive power boosts in order to fight the single most powerful form of Hulk.

Except y'know...Hulk never busted a planet before HOTM.

Try again.

[Nik Hasta]

1. First off, I want to note that I list in the first power which characters are composited. And yes, the TMNT are one of them.[

Super against the notion of trying to use Composites as an objective measurement of power but it's your thread so go off.

2. Turtles are where they are because the 80s turtles have are pretty consistently about to break through metal sutff (both armed and unarmed) and in Rise Raph has sent foes blasting off team rocket style by hitting them with a metal ladder.

Couple of points:

Firstly, as someone who is very familiar with Rise as a series, I can assure you that that feat isn't really consistent with Raph's presentation in the series outside of him actively using his magic weapon which he didn't have in this sequence. I don't know if you want to count outliers in a Composite because Composites don't really have fixed rules in the same way but I would stress I don't think this is a strong feat to use.

Second, it's considerably less impressive than you're making it out to be because we don't actually see how far they fly. Raph doesn't hit them into the sky, he hits them across the ground, there's a pick impact spark but we don't see how far they go and none of the villains turn up in the episode again. It's not a clean feat.

Third, if you're doing Composite, the basis of your argument should be in the 2012 TMNT Lost Season iterations where the Turtles were given magical amulets to focus their chi which allowed their base stats to be on a level where they were throwing around multi-ton rock monsters and had actual super speed and stuff. They could also turn into Turtle Dragons as well.

But to do so would render the Composite effectively meaningless as those versions were way above other versions and it was only possible through an external powerup which kind of goes against the spirit of the thread I think.

3. I'll admit, I'm not super familiar with Asterix. What are his feats that put him above Cap?

Off the top of the dome.

- Casually throwing and catching a 1-2 ton rock with one hand.
- Hurling 1 - 2 ton masonry blocks as projectile weapons again with one hand.
- Caving in a foot thick iron bank vault door with one punch.
- A consistent history of hurling dudes in full armour 20 - 30 feet in the air with punches, slaps or just chucking them.
- Casually drags enormous carts full tree trunks by himself.
- Helps lift an entire Roman galley and carries it from the land to the ocean.
- Helps flip over an enormous siege tower with the assistance of two other Gauls.
- Being able to physically restrain Obelix to a certain degree.

Cap don't want none of the Gauls.

4. From what I've seen Judge Dredd seems about par with Conan. Where would you put him?

All the Dredd comics I've read and respect threads I've seen show nothing beyond like... Batman level strength. Heck, it's non-canon but in their multiple crossover comics, the two were portrayed as functionally equal though Batman was a much more skilled hand to hand fighter. I don't know why you've put him above Batman. Heck, I'm unsure why he's above Buffy. Or even Geralt when he's juicing.

5. What makes you put Hellboy above Cap?

Punching holes through big old monsters, swinging around big chunks of masonry as melee weaponry, generally is able to manhandle big monsters. I don't think he's much above Cap but definitely hits harder. Somewhere in the region of Guts perhaps?

[Sharpandpointies]

Small side note, this thread prompted me to look over Kenshiro stuff generally, happened across this clip which I had forgotten it is some classic Kenshiro dumb, Shura-era bollocks:



Love this series.

What the hell did I just watch? O_o

3. I'll admit, I'm not super familiar with Asterix. What are his feats that put him above Cap?

Off the top of the dome.

- Casually throwing and catching a 1-2 ton rock with one hand.
- Hurling 1 - 2 ton masonry blocks as projectile weapons again with one hand.
- Caving in a foot thick iron bank vault door with one punch.
- A consistent history of hurling dudes in full armour 20 - 30 feet in the air with punches, slaps or just chucking them.
- Casually drags enormous carts full tree trunks by himself.
- Helps lift an entire Roman galley and carries it from the land to the ocean.
- Helps flip over an enormous siege tower with the assistance of two other Gauls.
- Being able to physically restrain Obelix to a certain degree.

Cap don't want none of the Gauls.

I got the massive giggles at the idea of Cap being above Asterix.

41. Ruby Rose
42. Scrooge McDuck
43. The Terminator
44. Robocop
45. Raphael
46. Leonardo
47. Michelangelo
48. Donatello
49. Loki
50. Captain America
51. Guts the Black Swordsman
52. Asterix

Why are Robocop and Terminator above Asterix as well?

[Beadle]

Why are Robocop and Terminator above Asterix as well?

Why are they above Loki for that matter?

[Jcogginsa]

Yet as you clearly state above, his wish made Jen stronger...so why would the wishing well magic...in force through Bruce's wish..work on Jen but not Bruce, particularly when it was Bruce's wish?
.

Because nothing about the Hulk's wish requires amping his own strength to grant. In fact, amping his strength would make it harder grant his wish, because his wish is for Betty to be safe from his strength, and the wish granted that by amping Red She-Hulk up to Worldbreaker levels. If the wish amped Hulk too, then it would have to amp Red She-Hulk up even higher than it already had to.

The idea that the Wish amped up Hulk is completely illogical no basis in the actual story.

Super against the notion of trying to use Composites as an objective measurement of power but it's your thread so go off.

I mostly did it for characters without a solid 'Main' version to go off of.

Couple of points:

Firstly, as someone who is very familiar with Rise as a series, I can assure you that that feat isn't really consistent with Raph's presentation in the series outside of him actively using his magic weapon which he didn't have in this sequence. I don't know if you want to count outliers in a Composite because Composites don't really have fixed rules in the same way but I would stress I don't think this is a strong feat to use.

Second, it's considerably less impressive than you're making it out to be because we don't actually see how far they fly. Raph doesn't hit them into the sky, he hits them across the ground, there's a pick impact spark but we don't see how far they go and none of the villains turn up in the episode again. It's not a clean feat.

Third, if you're doing Composite, the basis of your argument should be in the 2012 TMNT Lost Season iterations where the Turtles were given magical amulets to focus their chi which allowed their base stats to be on a level where they were throwing around multi-ton rock monsters and had actual super speed and stuff. They could also turn into Turtle Dragons as well.

But to do so would render the Composite effectively meaningless as those versions were way above other versions and it was only possible through an external powerup which kind of goes against the spirit of the thread I think.

1. Fair enough re: Rise's Raph
2. I thought the Dragon turtles were TMNT 2k3? But you right that, being an external power up that the Turtles did not keep, those wouldn't be counted.

Off the top of the dome.

- Casually throwing and catching a 1-2 ton rock with one hand.
- Hurling 1 - 2 ton masonry blocks as projectile weapons again with one hand.
- Caving in a foot thick iron bank vault door with one punch.
- A consistent history of hurling dudes in full armour 20 - 30 feet in the air with punches, slaps or just chucking them.
- Casually drags enormous carts full tree trunks by himself.
- Helps lift an entire Roman galley and carries it from the land to the ocean.
- Helps flip over an enormous siege tower with the assistance of two other Gauls.
- Being able to physically restrain Obelix to a certain degree.

Cap don't want none of the Gauls.

Noted.

All the Dredd comics I've read and respect threads I've seen show nothing beyond like... Batman level strength. Heck, it's non-canon but in their multiple crossover comics, the two were portrayed as functionally equal though Batman was a much more skilled hand to hand fighter. I don't know why you've put him above Batman. Heck, I'm unsure why he's above Buffy. Or even Geralt when he's juicing.

Noted

Punching holes through big old monsters, swinging around big chunks of masonry as melee weaponry, generally is able to manhandle big monsters. I don't think he's much above Cap but definitely hits harder. Somewhere in the region of Guts perhaps?

From what I've seen He hasn't lifted anything better than what Cap's lifted, though it's entirely possible I just missed it on the occasions that he did.

Revised list 4

1. Thanos
2. The Hulk
3. Thor
4. Superman
5. Wonder Woman
6. Goku
7. Invincible
8. Sun Wukong
9. Akuma
10. Godzilla
11. Buttercup Utonium
12. Blossom Utonium
13. Bubbles Utonium
14. Gamera
15. Aquaman
16. Savage Dragon
17. Ultraman Belial
18. Ultraman
19. Naruto Uzumaki
20. Monkey D. Luffy
21. Astro Boy
22. The Thing
23. Kratos
24. Iron Man
25. Dr. Doom
26. King Kong
27. Popeye the Sailor Man
28. RX-78 Gundam
29. Kenshiro
30. Optimus Prime
31. Spider-Man
32. Ben 10
33. Mario
34. Steven Universe
35. Samurai Jack
36. Pikachu
37. Po the Panda
38. Stitch
39. Spawn
40. Master Chief
41. Asterix
42. Ruby Rose
43. Scrooge McDuck
44. Loki
45. The Terminator
46. Robocop
47. Raphael
48. Leonardo
49. Michelangelo
50. Donatello
51. Captain America
52. Guts the Black Swordsman
53. Shrek
54. Conan the Barbarian
55. Hellboy
56. Star Butterfly
57. Buffy Summers
58. Rapunzel
59. Batman
60. Jason Voorhees
61. Avatar Aang
62. Judge Dredd
63. Xena
64. Imhotep
65. Rick Sanchez
66. Geralt of Rivia
67. Sherlock Holmes
68. James Bond
69. John Constantine

[Cronus]

Because nothing about the Hulk's wish requires amping his own strength to grant.

Problem is...you can't escape the fact that, as you've already clearly admitted...Bruce's wish amped RSH. So why wouldn't amp Bruce? Show me any scan with narration/dialogue that specifies what you're asserting?

In fact, amping his strength would make it harder grant his wish, because his wish is for Betty to be safe from his strength, and the wish granted that by amping Red She-Hulk up to Worldbreaker levels. If the wish amped Hulk too, then it would have to amp Red She-Hulk up even higher than it already had to.

All. Total. Speculation. There is literally nothing in the books or scans that suggest what you're saying. You have provided zero evidence to support that world breaker Hulk was not amped by wishing well magic. Additionally, Tyrannus' dialogue clearly indicate that Arm-Cheddon and Bi Beasts wishes backfired and helped Hulk achieve his wish (to fight, die and fight some more). Further, you've conflated Tyrannus' dialogue/narration of the events as "Bruce's wish". Not the case and just more speculation on your part. Between Bruce's wish and his enemies back firing wishes, Bruce was amped. Period.

The idea that the Wish amped up Hulk is completely illogical no basis in the actual story.

On the contrary I've supported my statements with scans and logic based on those scans and that take into account the full context of the story.

You have failed to provide sufficient evidence that refutes the idea that Bruce was amped.

1) Bruce made a wish to fight die and fight again. Subsequently, he clashed with RSH who was clearly as powerful as him.

2) As mentioned, Bruce never planet busted before this.

3) The narration/dialogue of Tyrannous you refer to clearly indicate Bruce's enemies wishes helped Bruce achieve his wish (to fight die and fight again).

Bruce. Was. Amped.

There's no escaping it. If Bruce's wish worked on RSH it would also have to work on him.

[Jcogginsa]

n the contrary I've supported my statements with scans and logic based on those scans and that take into account the full context of the story.

You have failed to provide sufficient evidence that refutes the idea that Bruce was amped.

And you haven't ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.

All you have done is insist, over and over, that Bruce making a Wish automatically means that he is amped, despite nothing in the story indicating that in any way whatsoever. And it's ludicrous.

I'm done arguing with you about this. You are flat out wrong, end of story.

If Cthulhu of R'yleh has a citation to prove there's an amp involved, I'll look at that, but I will not even read any further posts you have to say about the subject.

[Cronus]

And you haven't ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.

I'm using the words and scans you provided.

?

All you have done is insist, over and over, that Bruce making a Wish automatically means that he is amped,

Yes. A wish you said amped RSH...but not Bruce. I mean, really?

despite nothing in the story indicating that in any way whatsoever. And it's ludicrous.

Nope. Clear as a bell. You're frustrated because you can't answer (won't answer) a simple question.

I'm done arguing with you about this. You are flat out wrong, end of story.

I'm completely right and you know it. Answer the question: how could Jen be amped but not Bruce? Answer?

If Cthulhu of R'yleh has a citation to prove there's an amp involved, I'll look at that, but I will not even read any further posts you have to say about the subject.

YOU provided the evidence. Answer? How was RSH amped but not Bruce?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Looks like someone beat me to the punch on the Wishing Well.

Unfortunately doesn't seem to have done much, nor has pointing out how the board works hereabouts. So I'ma nope right outta this thread. Good luck Jconsigga. Hopefully you learn how to follow the rules and maybe take a chill pill. Getting angry and trying to bait, only to cry victim when it fails is... a bad look yanno?

[Jcogginsa]

Looks like someone beat me to the punch on the Wishing Well.

Unfortunately doesn't seem to have done much, nor has pointing out how the board works hereabouts. So I'ma nope right outta this thread. Good luck Jconsigga. Hopefully you learn how to follow the rules and maybe take a chill pill. Getting angry and trying to bait, only to cry victim when it fails is... a bad look yanno?

I am following the rules.

I read the issues you pointed to and I saw no evidence that the wishing well amped up.

No one been able to provide any credible citation proving that Bruce was amped.

Bruce being amped beyond his normal means makes no sense within the narrative that the story presents.

The only argument anyone has presented is "What the Hulk does in this story is stronger than anything he's done before" and argument has no legs whatsoever because the story explains why he is that strong in a way that does not involve the Wishing Well at all.

You don't get to claim that I am not following the rules just because you are incapable presenting an effective argument. I did everything that the rules require of me.

[Cronus]

I am following the rules.

Not even remotely. You're ignoring your own logic and failed to give a valid answer to this question: how is it that RSH was amped but Bruce wasn't when it was Bruce's wish, as you clearly answer above, that amped RSH? Hm?

How did that happen?

I read the issues

And a synopsis on the internet too.

you pointed to and I saw no evidence that the wishing well amped up.

But how is that possible when, as you clearly assert above, it was Bruce's wish that amped RSH too? How did he manage to amp her but not himself? Can you explain?

No one

Except me, 'Thu, and Nik...

been able to provide any credible citation proving that Bruce was amped.

Aside from what a few have already pointed out, you've become trapped by your own logic.

Bruce being amped beyond his normal means makes no sense within the narrative that the story presents.

You mean aside from the fact that Bruce has not planet busted prior to HOTM?

The only argument anyone has presented is "What the Hulk does in this story is stronger than anything he's done before" and argument has no legs whatsoever because the story explains why he is that strong in a way that does not involve the Wishing Well at all.

Horse puckey.

You don't get to claim that I am not following the rules just because you are incapable presenting an effective argument. I did everything that the rules require of me.

I'm claiming it as well.