Rank these characters!

[Jcogginsa]

Did you pull this list from a respect thread?

Yes, it's the simplest way to find a good list of feats

Also, a thing or two...to begin. Why not read the mod rulings? Stuff you are pushing on these lists have been decided. For example:


Cap is board ruled as CBPH. Incidentally, many of these mod rulings (as I hinted it above) are mod ruled for a reason. They have been debated....TO...DEATH...

You posting feats of Cap bullet timing therefore is, well...yeah.

Do you have a link to this ruling?

Not that it really matters, given the only person he's ahead of has also been ruled to be CBPH
EDIT:

Never mind, I found the ruling.

Alrighty, so. Hulk. This has come up here as well. Whizzing blur is about as best I can give to Hulk in reaction speed. I personally don't see Hulk as presented with super reaction speed, maybe someone could argue otherwise? But I'm not seeing it. His stuff is waayyy too inconsistent to call him bullet timer or hypersonic in reaction speed as I've heard him referred to. So, dodging bullets, missiles and what not? Nope. Not really.

As the scans show, the Hulk's ability to catch missiles is something well known enough in universe that people specifically design their missiles to counter act it.

So I think putting him solidly at missile level is fair.

Why do you have WW above Clark?

Because it's a numerical list, so even when people are very close, someone's gonna be on top. I settled on Wonder Woman ahead of Superman for two reasons: 1, She's got several feats reacting to Superman's heat vision and attacks from other Kryptonians, and 2, the bit where Batman agrees she's faster in reaction times.

Also, regarding Cap, you said:



Why is Hulk higher on your list than Cap, if Cap dodges punches from the Hulk? Can you explain?

a couple reasons
1, Because Cap's Skill can make up for him being slower.
2, Because Hulk has caught Cap's shield.
3, Logically, the stronger forms of the Hulk would increase in speed too, since all of his speed comes from his muscles. The increase isn't as drastic, but it should be there.

[Cronus]

Yes, it's the simplest way to find a good list of feats

Let me be more direct. Don't bring lists from respect threads (other websites) here. There is no place on Rumbles for them. Not how things are done here.

Do you have a link to this ruling?

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...41-Mod-Rulings

Under #3.

Not that it really matters, given the only person he's ahead of has also been ruled to be CBPH

See and that's the problem. You're disdain for the rules, including mod rulings, is pretty disrespectful. Like I said, there's a reason why these rules are in place.

As the scans show, the Hulk's ability to catch missiles is something well known enough in universe that people specifically design their missiles to counter act it.

So I think putting him solidly at missile level is fair.

Not even remotely. He's seen being tagged by missiles and bullets as often as dodging them, in fact more so being hit by them as anything else. So, no. Your appraisal is off by a stretch. If you're going to rely on scaling with Hulk, then that scaling should be consistently at that level.

Attachment 102183

Attachment 102184

Attachment 102185

Because it's a numerical list, so even when people are very close, someone's gonna be on top.

............

I settled on Wonder Woman ahead of Superman for two reasons: 1, She's got several feats reacting to Superman's heat vision and attacks from other Kryptonians, and 2, the bit where Batman agrees she's faster in reaction times.

Wonder Woman is too inconsistent to give her "she's faster than Clark" based on scaling. Significant portion of light, lower end? Maybe? But faster than Clark, based on her own consistent high end feats? Nope. Clark is about as consistently close to light as you can get without actually crossing light speed. I mean, Doomsday "reacts" to Superman successfully quite a bit in the comics. Is Doomsday in the same tier as Clark in terms of reaction speed? Deathstroke has reacted to Wally West a few times (infamously in fact). Is he as fast as Wally West?

a couple reasons

1, Because Cap's Skill can make up for him being slower.

Yet and still, you put Hulk above Cap in the reaction speed department who is board ruled CBPH.

2, Because Hulk has caught Cap's shield.

Thor has caught his own hammer a few times when it was really close to his head. Does that mean Thor is FTL in reaction speed because Mjolnir can travel FTL?

3, Logically, the stronger forms of the Hulk would increase in speed too, since all of his speed comes from his muscles. The increase isn't as drastic, but it should be there.

I see your logic, but disagree. It could just as easily be argued that Hulk in his Joe Fixit form was faster and more agile than the rest because he was smaller.

I'll go ahead and note here: WW and Superman you mentioned on your list? Are characters that are explicitly presented with super speed as part of their power set. Additionally, they have feats consistently across their careers that solidify their places in terms of relative reaction speed. I do understand (having read a large portion of Hulk's library) that there are adjectives used in narration in conjunction with Hulk that might suggest he has faster than human reflexes. But again, those feats, by and large, based on scaling are faarrr too inconsistent to draw the conclusion that he is hypersonic.

[Jcogginsa]

Let me be more direct. Don't bring lists from respect threads (other websites) here. There is no place on Rumbles for them. Not how things are done here.

Dude, there just lists of feats

Not even remotely. He's seen being tagged by missiles and bullets as often as dodging them, in fact more so being hit by them as anything else. So, no. Your appraisal is off by a stretch. If you're going to rely on scaling with Hulk, then that scaling should be consistently at that level.

Attachment 102183

Attachment 102184

Attachment 102185

Your attachments didn't work.

............



Wonder Woman is too inconsistent to give her "she's faster than Clark" based on scaling. Significant portion of light, lower end? Maybe? But faster than Clark, based on her own consistent high end feats? Nope. Clark is about as consistently close to light as you can get without actually crossing light speed. I mean, Doomsday "reacts" to Superman successfully quite a bit in the comics. Is Doomsday in the same tier as Clark in terms of reaction speed? Deathstroke has reacted to Wally West a few times (infamously in fact). Is he as fast as Wally West?

1. Close to light? I thought Superman was FTL
2. Wonder Woman's general presentation is "At the same level as Superman". And both have FTL feats, so it tracks.

Yet and still, you put Hulk above Cap in the reaction speed department who is board ruled CBPH.

There are no mod rulings for the Hulk

Thor has caught his own hammer a few times when it was really close to his head. Does that mean Thor is FTL in reaction speed because Mjolnir can travel FTL?

Doesn't Thor's hammer specifically return to his hand?

I see your logic, but disagree. It could just as easily be argued that Hulk in his Joe Fixit form was faster and more agile than the rest because he was smaller.

I'll go ahead and note here: WW and Superman you mentioned on your list? Are characters that are explicitly presented with super speed as part of their power set. Additionally, they have feats consistently across their careers that solidify their places in terms of relative reaction speed. I do understand (having read a large portion of Hulk's library) that there are adjectives used in narration in conjunction with Hulk that might suggest he has faster than human reflexes. But again, those feats, by and large, based on scaling are faarrr too inconsistent to draw the conclusion that he is hypersonic.

And the Hulk is explicitly, textually capable of catching missiles. It's something well-known enough in universe that his enemies design their missiles with counter measures to stop him from doing so.

And even if there are cases of him getting tagged, from what I've seen there are more cases where he catches or dodges the missiles. So it seems more likely to me that the cases of him getting hit are low ends.

[Jcogginsa]

An additional note re: Batman and Captain America's bullet timing feats.

When I was writing the DC speed post, I did initially specify which feats were possible aim dodges, but the post wound up being too long, so I had to edit out a lot of stuff, including those specifications. It's why Wally only has post crisis feats listed.

When it came to Cap, I left out ruminations on aim-dodges to keep consistent with Batman

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Versatility
Thor. Wally. Ironman. Batman. Superman. Naruto. Godzilla. Popeye. Invincible. Kratos. Pikachu. Sonic.

Speed
Wally. Goku. Sonic. Superman. Wonderwoman. Invincible. Luffy. Naruto. Samurai Jack. Thor. Pikachu. Hulk. Po. Batman. Captain America. Kratos. Godzilla. Mario. Shrek. Terminator. Jason

Firepower
Goku. Superman. Thor. Hulk. Godzilla. Naruto. Invincible.

[Cronus]

Dude, there just lists of feats

Yes. From other websites that don’t usually note context or even versions of each character sometimes.

Your attachments didn't work.

https://imageshack.com/i/potXNm1pj

https://imageshack.com/i/pm6BVx6Cj

https://imageshack.com/i/poDWPq25j

https://imageshack.com/i/pnk9SsR4j

https://imageshack.com/i/posCzHNrj

https://imageshack.com/i/poq5Y9Qfj

Close to light? I thought Superman was FTL

Long story short, no. Pre-Crisis, sure. Ridiculously beyond light speed. But post-Crisis? His high end after his power up from the Byrne days has him maxed at near light. There is one FTL’ish type reaction feat after that, but it don’t track with what he did after he was powered up post Byrne.

Wonder Woman's general presentation is "At the same level as Superman". And both have FTL feats, so it tracks.

I’ll just say there have been too many times (post crisis) Wonder Woman has been statued by speedsters. As far as comparing her to Clark, I recall a time when Clark blocked a kick by Wonder Woman with a comment to the effect, “you’re no speeding bullet”. Using scaling is sketchy at best if that is how you’re approaching Wonder Woman’s reaction speed. And as I stated, Clark’s best stuff without scaling is explicitly near light. Wonder Woman’s speed is literally all over the place, so to say that she can consistently be compared to Clark is not really true.

There are no mod rulings for the Hulk

Cap.

The mod ruling is for Cap.

Doesn't Thor's hammer specifically return to his hand?

You said Hulk caught Cap’s shield.

How fast can Cap throw his shield?

How fast can Mjolnir travel? Thor has caught the hammer a few times when it close to hitting him (his back was turned while he was otherwise pre-occupied).

So is Thor FTL in reaction speed?

And the Hulk is explicitly, textually capable of catching missiles.

And I’m saying there are as many contradictory instances of Hulk not being able to react to the same stuff your basing his reaction speed from.

It's something well-known enough in universe that his enemies design their missiles with counter measures to stop him from doing so.

So how do you explain the many instances that Hulk has been hit by the stuff you claim he dodges?

And even if there are cases of him getting tagged, from what I've seen there are more cases where he catches or dodges the missiles. So it seems more likely to me that the cases of him getting hit are low ends.

Super speed of any specific measure is not explicitly part of Hulk’s power set. So his “presentation” as “missile speed” as you put it becomes pretty sketchy when writer’s use descriptor’s granting the Hulk some undeclared level of speed, then the guy gets hit by the same. So not only is presentation not there, consistent feats based on scaling (because let’s face it, that’s 95% of what Hulk has in the way of reaction speed) are contradicted too many times by him getting hit by the same stuff.

[Jcogginsa]

Yes. From other websites that don’t usually note context or even versions of each character sometimes.

I don't copy paste every feat dude.

https://imageshack.com/i/potXNm1pj

https://imageshack.com/i/pm6BVx6Cj

https://imageshack.com/i/poDWPq25j

https://imageshack.com/i/pnk9SsR4j

https://imageshack.com/i/posCzHNrj

https://imageshack.com/i/poq5Y9Qfj

While there are some clear cut examples of him being tagged by attacks here, There's fewer than there are of him catching missiles. Additionally in some of these, he doesn't seem to be trying to avoid the attacks in the first place

Long story short, no. Pre-Crisis, sure. Ridiculously beyond light speed. But post-Crisis? His high end after his power up from the Byrne days has him maxed at near light. There is one FTL’ish type reaction feat after that, but it don’t track with what he did after he was powered up post Byrne.

Byrne was 20 years ago.

Superman's had plenty of FTL feats

I’ll just say there have been too many times (post crisis) Wonder Woman has been statued by speedsters. As far as comparing her to Clark, I recall a time when Clark blocked a kick by Wonder Woman with a comment to the effect, “you’re no speeding bullet”. Using scaling is sketchy at best if that is how you’re approaching Wonder Woman’s reaction speed. And as I stated, Clark’s best stuff without scaling is explicitly near light. Wonder Woman’s speed is literally all over the place, so to say that she can consistently be compared to Clark is not really true.

Superman has also been statued by Speedsters

Cap.

The mod ruling is for Cap.

And how is the Cap ruling relevant to the Hulk?

You said Hulk caught Cap’s shield.

How fast can Cap throw his shield?

Well at various times he's intercepted a bullet 1,2.

Which suggests he can throw it pretty fast.

How fast can Mjolnir travel? Thor has caught the hammer a few times when it close to hitting him (his back was turned while he was otherwise pre-occupied).

So is Thor FTL in reaction speed?

Mjolnir definitely has lightspeed travel feats, both under it's own power and from being thrown by Thor.

However I couldn't say for sure if he's FTL based on catching Mjolnir, because IIRC Mjolnir just automatically goes to his hand with no catching necesary

And I’m saying there are as many contradictory instances of Hulk not being able to react to the same stuff your basing his reaction speed from.

So how do you explain the many instances that Hulk has been hit by the stuff you claim he dodges?

1. You're not able to link to as many
2. No character is perfectly competant. Him being capable of catching missiles doesn't make it impossible for him to be hit by them. He can be taken by surprise, have an off day, or decide he feels like tanking that particular day.

Super speed of any specific measure is not explicitly part of Hulk’s power set. So his “presentation” as “missile speed” as you put it becomes pretty sketchy when writer’s use descriptor’s granting the Hulk some undeclared level of speed, then the guy gets hit by the same. So not only is presentation not there, consistent feats based on scaling (because let’s face it, that’s 95% of what Hulk has in the way of reaction speed) are contradicted too many times by him getting hit by the same stuff.

It's not sketchy when it's describing events that have actually happened on numerous occasions within the comics themselves.

Hulk catches missiles as often as he doesn't, so using an in-universe statement to settle the debate is logical.

[The Watcher]

Temporarily Closed Pending Review