Rank these characters!

[Jcogginsa]

I think all the relevant candidates for the top strongest would be Superman, Thanos, Darkseid, Hulk, Wonder Woman, Thor, as far as i know Popeye and maybe Goku, but by counting Goku should we probably count Green Lantern too.

I am no scientific expert on these matters, but black holes can be just as powerful as far as i know.

I don't think Batman could accidentally push a big ship, or sink it with a champagne bottle.

Jason's should be stronger, and is weirder.

I am not sure, that seems even more problematic than Goku or Green Lantern.

Probably Astro Boy.

1. Popeye's best feat his shooting a tree into the sun, other wise he's not really in the planet shaking tier.
2. Fair, I forgot that he also pushed the ship. So that puts Shrek higher in the runaking.
3. How is it weirder?

[Nik Hasta]

The black hole versus star thing is very much case by case.

Unsurprisingly, if you want to actually figure it out to some degree, it requires a decent knowledge of physics but also the acknowledgement that fiction will not play by those rules consistently.

[big_adventure]

The black hole versus star thing is very much case by case.

Unsurprisingly, if you want to actually calls it to some degree, it requires a decent knowledge of physics and also the acknowledgement that fiction will not play by those rules consistently.

IIRC the general concept is that a star needs to be somewhere between 2 and 3 times the mass of our sun to eventually collapse into a black hole. So a feat of resisting the gravity at the heart of a star that's 20 solar masses would be "more impressive" then resisting the gravity of the smallest "real" black hole.

Thing is, even there, the approach to the core in the black hole should be worse, because of the concentration of all of that mass in a smaller point, making the relative application of gravity worse as you approach.

Buuuuuut in fiction you can make itty witty bitty black holes because SCIENCE and, while they would be nasty as all hell, they wouldn't be NEARLY as damaging.

This ignores all the "black holez is gatewayz across the universe" stuff that pops up in fiction.

So, yeah, it's pretty difficult to use fictional black holes as what they are, because the feats are all over the place. Plus, people who have never shown CLOSE to the kind of feats it would take to deal with black hole gravity or radiation deal with that stuff in comics pretty regularly.

[Rightoya]

1. Popeye's best feat his shooting a tree into the sun, other wise he's not really in the planet shaking tier.
2. Fair, I forgot that he also pushed the ship. So that puts Shrek higher in the runaking.
3. How is it weirder?

1. Ok i though he has more.
2. I agree.
3. Because it makes less sense.

[Jcogginsa]

IIRC the general concept is that a star needs to be somewhere between 2 and 3 times the mass of our sun to eventually collapse into a black hole. So a feat of resisting the gravity at the heart of a star that's 20 solar masses would be "more impressive" then resisting the gravity of the smallest "real" black hole.

Thing is, even there, the approach to the core in the black hole should be worse, because of the concentration of all of that mass in a smaller point, making the relative application of gravity worse as you approach.

Buuuuuut in fiction you can make itty witty bitty black holes because SCIENCE and, while they would be nasty as all hell, they wouldn't be NEARLY as damaging.

This ignores all the "black holez is gatewayz across the universe" stuff that pops up in fiction.

So, yeah, it's pretty difficult to use fictional black holes as what they are, because the feats are all over the place. Plus, people who have never shown CLOSE to the kind of feats it would take to deal with black hole gravity or radiation deal with that stuff in comics pretty regularly.

So, should we ignore the black hole feats as outliers?

3. Because it makes less sense.

What makes less sense about it?

[Nik Hasta]

So, should we ignore the black hole feats as outliers?

Well, they might not be outliers.

Again, it's case by case. Big's point is more that "handles a black hole," is not a singular feat in the same way that "lifts a 100 ton rock," is. Black holes vary so context and effect is important.

Like... for example, because it's a fun feat to post about. In Zatch Bell, the final bad guy Clear Note has a black hole opened on him. He then proceeds to pull himself out of the black hole and erases it with his power.





Does this make Clear as strong as say Superman who had a similar black hole feat posted on the previous page? I would argue that it doesn't because of the context of Clear's other feats and Superman's other feats. Clear messes around on the level of manhandling dudes who can mess with mountains otherwise but he never gets on to the planetary sort of level that Superman hangs out on.

Black holes aren't consistently equal to one another so they are hard to quantify without context on the black hole itself or other context.

[Jcogginsa]

Well, they might not be outliers.

Again, it's case by case. Big's point is more that "handles a black hole," is not a singular feat in the same way that "lifts a 100 ton rock," is. Black holes vary so context and effect is important.

Like... for example, because it's a fun feat to post about. In Zatch Bell, the final bad guy Clear Note has a black hole opened on him. He then proceeds to pull himself out of the black hole and erases it with his power.





Does this make Clear as strong as say Superman who had a similar black hole feat posted on the previous page? I would argue that it doesn't because of the context of Clear's other feats and Superman's other feats. Clear messes around on the level of manhandling dudes who can mess with mountains otherwise but he never gets on to the planetary sort of level that Superman hangs out on.

Black holes aren't consistently equal to one another so they are hard to quantify without context on the black hole itself or other context.

This is fair.

Let's take a look at these feats.

If I'm recalling my science classes correctly, the gravitational pull of a black hole only becomes insurmountable once you go beyond the event horizon. If you're outside of the event horizon, then it's actually only got the same gravitational pull as the star that was there before.

In the first Superman feat, it looks like only the tip of his cape and foot are beyond the rim of the hole, which is what I would assume is the event horizon in this artistic depiction.

Now, for the second feat, based on the dialogue what's happening is that a mini black hole is coming undone. IE, it's going to stop being a black hole, and start being an explosion. And what Superman is doing is squeezing it hard enough to keep it from expanding further. Although, since it's still emitting light even in his hand, He's presumably not matching the pressure of a real black hole.

For Diana, Martian Manhunter was well beyond the rim of the whole when she caught it. So, assuming that the rim is the event horizon, that's a better feat than Superman's first black hole feat.

For Thor's Black hole feat, the Black hole is in the sky and he's at ground level, nowhere near the event horizon. However, he is stopping a castle from being sucked in, which is much heavier.

EDIT:

And as far as the Star Feats go,

-Thor overcame the gravimetric pressure of a neutron star, which range from 10 to 20 solar masses
-Hulk stood under the weight of a star that have gona Supernova, and the minimum to go Nova is 8 solar masses.
-Superman moves Earth sun, and is noted to not be getting a super charge from it.

Both Hulk and Superman's feats have some wonky physics stuff going on. So over all, I'd put Thor at the top of the pack regarding Strength feats

[Jcogginsa]

My tentative Strength Ranking. Not every character is represented

1. Thor
2. The Hulk
3. Superma
4. Wonder Woman
5. Thanos*
6. Goku**
7. Aquaman
8. Akuma
9. Godzilla
10. Buttercup Utonium
11. Blossom Utonium
12. Bubbles Utonium
13. Gamera
14. Invincible
15. Savage Dragon
16. Ultraman Belial
17. Ultraman
18. Naruto Uzumaki
19. Monkey D. Luffy
20. Astro Boy
21. Dr. Doom
22. Iron Man
23. Kratos
24. King Kong
25. Popeye the Sailor Man
26. The Thing
27. Optimus Prime
28. Spider-Man
29. Samurai Jack
30. Ben 10
31. Mario***
32. Po the Panda
33. Pikachu
34. Stitch
35. Steven Universe
36. Spawn
37. Ruby Rose
38. Master Chief
39. Scrooge McDuck
40. Kenshiro
41. The Terminator
42. Robocop
43. Loki
44. Captain America
45. Shrek
46. Conan the Barbarian
47. Hellboy
48. Buffy Summers
49. Rapunzel
50. Batman
51. Jason Voorhees


* I place Thanos lower than the hulk because the Hulks strength varies. While Thanos has manhandled the Hulk, that doesn't mean he's above Hulk's highest levels.

**In the Tournament of power, it was shown that Goku could not escape a black hole-like attack with his physical strength, which would put him below Wonder Woman's level. Additionally, he was able to do so with his Kamehameha, which indicates that his energy attacks are stronger than his physical ones, which throws the idea of scaling into question.

*** Mario's castle feats are massive outliars if you treat them as if the castles are as big as the levels, but they fit right in if you base it on the cut scene visuals, so I'm going to put him below Kratos.

[Nik Hasta]

You've got Kenshiro below Scrooge McDuck.

You've got Kenshiro below Ruby Rose.

You've got Pikachu above Steven Universe.

Youve got Samurai Jack above Kenshiro.

You've got Aquaman and Akuma above Invincible.

A lot of highly suspicious placement here.

[Jcogginsa]

You've got Kenshiro below Scrooge McDuck.

You've got Kenshiro below Ruby Rose.

You've got Pikachu above Steven Universe.

Youve got Samurai Jack above Kenshiro.

You've got Aquaman and Akuma above Invincible.

A lot of highly suspicious placement here.

1. This is the best Kenshiro Strength feat that I was aware of, and I'm sure how to rank that with Ruby's Nevermore feat and Scrooge carrying all his own wealth. And I was fairly sure Jack's pillar feat is above it.

2. Pikachu can move around building sized mecha with his attacks.

3. Aquaman moved a continental plate. Meanwhile for Akuma, I made him composite without realizing that would include Asura's Wrath, where he punched a dude through the moon.

[Nik Hasta]

1. This is the best Kenshiro Strength feat that I was aware of, and I'm sure how to rank that with Ruby's Nevermore feat and Scrooge carrying all his own wealth. And I was fairly sure Jack's pillar feat is above it.

Kenshiro's best strength feats off the top of my head include:

- Smashing a giant through the walls of a bomb shelter casually. Said giant was still alive and fighting after being piledrived so Kenshiro punched him so hard he was literally torn in half.
- The force of him and Han wrestling each other raising a multi-story castle down to the bedrock beneath its foundations.
- Kicking a dude in the dick so hard he just flew into the sky and disappeared Team Rocket style.
- Taps down skyscrapers with one punch.
- Matches strength with Raoh who blows holes in skyscrapers by punching at them with the sheer air pressure of his punches.
- Stopping a train by exerting his chi at it, though this is more energy powers than raw strength.

The Nevermore feat is more about Weiss' acceleration magic and Ruby's firepower than Ruby's raw strength. You could argue it's grip strength but it's hardly much to do with her physical strength and not in the same league as Kenshiro. None of her other feats are remotely in his league.

Regarding Jack; I am assuming you mean the clip of him kicking over a stone pillar posted earlier? That is so laughably below stuff Kenshiro has done, even things posted in the thread, so I don't really get what you're trying to argue here.

2. Pikachu can move around building sized mecha with his attacks.

The "building sized" mech you've quoted there is shaken a little rather than moved and is honestly really small if you look at the shot of Jesse and James in comparison to their size in the wide shot. Based on his hitting power in his more serious confrontations with Jasper, Steven is more than capable of replicating and exceeding that feat.

3. Aquaman moved a continental plate. Meanwhile for Akuma, I made him composite without realizing that would include Asura's Wrath, where he punched a dude through the moon.

In the very scans you posted, Aquaman states that he triggered a volcanic eruption to move the plate. It's not him moving it under his own power, he tries to shove it to help but he is not moving it alone. Unclean feat.

Asura's stuff is nominally non-canon is literally the only feats you have remotely in the ballpark of the top tiers so this feels exceptionally generous.

Heck, given where Mark ended up in terms of raw power with his showdown with Thragg, I wouldn't think he'd be too far off these levels himself. Dude is mad strong.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I'd say that Popeye probably breaks the curve, as he reality warps.

Doing things like pulling the film roll back together after it's torn, and punching living creatures into inanimate objects (punches a bull and turns him into a meat market stall).

He also does things like Punch Bluto to the Moon, and punch human beings into money.

[Nik Hasta]

Small side note, this thread prompted me to look over Kenshiro stuff generally, happened across this clip which I had forgotten it is some classic Kenshiro dumb, Shura-era bollocks:



Love this series.

[Shellhead]

Is Superma really Martha Kent? I don't know that I would rank her above Wonder Woman.

[Jcogginsa]

Kenshiro's best strength feats off the top of my head include:

- Smashing a giant through the walls of a bomb shelter casually. Said giant was still alive and fighting after being piledrived so Kenshiro punched him so hard he was literally torn in half.
- The force of him and Han wrestling each other raising a multi-story castle down to the bedrock beneath its foundations.
- Kicking a dude in the dick so hard he just flew into the sky and disappeared Team Rocket style.
- Taps down skyscrapers with one punch.
- Matches strength with Raoh who blows holes in skyscrapers by punching at them with the sheer air pressure of his punches.
- Stopping a train by exerting his chi at it, though this is more energy powers than raw strength.

Okay, that stuff definitely deserves a higher spot

The Nevermore feat is more about Weiss' acceleration magic and Ruby's firepower than Ruby's raw strength. You could argue it's grip strength but it's hardly much to do with her physical strength and not in the same league as Kenshiro. None of her other feats are remotely in his league.

Weiss isn't using her acceleration glyph, she was using a gravity glyph to help ruby run up the cliff

Regarding Jack; I am assuming you mean the clip of him kicking over a stone pillar posted earlier? That is so laughably below stuff Kenshiro has done, even things posted in the thread, so I don't really get what you're trying to argue here.

It was the one where he pushed over the colossal pillar. Not as good as the Kenshiro feats you pointed out, but it's very solid

The "building sized" mech you've quoted there is shaken a little rather than moved and is honestly really small if you look at the shot of Jesse and James in comparison to their size in the wide shot. Based on his hitting power in his more serious confrontations with Jasper, Steven is more than capable of replicating and exceeding that feat.

Fair

In the very scans you posted, Aquaman states that he triggered a volcanic eruption to move the plate. It's not him moving it under his own power, he tries to shove it to help but he is not moving it alone. Unclean feat.

fair

Asura's stuff is nominally non-canon is literally the only feats you have remotely in the ballpark of the top tiers so this feels exceptionally generous.

Also fair

Heck, given where Mark ended up in terms of raw power with his showdown with Thragg, I wouldn't think he'd be too far off these levels himself. Dude is mad strong.

Can you elaborate on that?

I'd say that Popeye probably breaks the curve, as he reality warps.

Doing things like pulling the film roll back together after it's torn, and punching living creatures into inanimate objects (punches a bull and turns him into a meat market stall).

He also does things like Punch Bluto to the Moon, and punch human beings into money.

I'd say Popeye has enough regular strength feats to be ranked.

Is Superma really Martha Kent? I don't know that I would rank her above Wonder Woman.

Darn typos