Rank these characters!

[Jcogginsa]

He's fought Hulk multiple times, and slapped the hell out of the Hulk each time. Nearly beating the Hulk to death and then tossing his barely alive body on the ground only to say, "hey I didn't kill him I'm not bad this time I swear!" Speaks pretty well to the guy's strength.

You're also clinging to WB Hulk like he's some sort of... paragon of strength and he's really not.

He is by Word of God the strongest Hulk, so yes he is a paragon of strength when it comes to the Hulk

Silver Surfer treats planet busters (like Beta Ray Bill) like garbage; beating on them so hard he's apologizing for it. He also ignores hits from Maestro and can intimidate him into not even trying to fight him with a few words. Maestro > WB Hulk.

Citation on Maestro being stronger than WB Hulk?

Post-WB Hulk amped by Odin's brother. So stronger than he's usually portrayed.

What issues were these?

Heart of the Monster, where he is explicitly amped with magic from the Wishing Well, along with the rest of his rogues gallery.

Okay, I looked up a synopsis of this storyline, and I can't find any mention of Hulk using the wishing Well to amp his strength. All I'm seeing is him wishing to bring his friends back to life, and to give his friends what they want.

So I'm gonna need you to cite where it's mentioned that the wishing well is amping him up.

[Cronus]

1. the Hulk's strength varies. Stronger than the Hulk in one fight doesn't mean being stronger than the Hulk at his peak.
2. I was gonna question you on the "slapped the hell out of a Hulk stronger than Worldbreaker" but then I remembered I put Thor above the Hulk anyway, so it doesn't really matter


Then what is this?

"This", is an amped Hulk from Heart of the Monster. To be specific, amped with wishing well magic. Not a clean feat in the least and therefore, discarded for the sake of this dicussion.

He is by Word of God the strongest Hulk, so yes he is a paragon of strength when it comes to the Hulk

Citation on Maestro being stronger than WB Hulk?

What issues were these?


Okay, I looked up a synopsis of this storyline, and I can't find any mention of Hulk using the wishing Well to amp his strength. All I'm seeing is him wishing to bring his friends back to life, and to give his friends what they want.

So I'm gonna need you to cite where it's mentioned that the wishing well is amping him up.

Right, so...on these boards you actually have to base what you're asserting on feats from the comics, not a synopsis or wiki? Maybe? The general principle is "high feats consistent with the character's presentation".

By chance, just so I'm clear, would you care to explain why the feat from HOTM of Hulk breaking a world (sans wishing well magic) is superior to Thanos busting a planet?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

He is by Word of God the strongest Hulk, so yes he is a paragon of strength when it comes to the Hulk

Word of God means little on a board that specifically only accepts high end feats consistent with a character's presentation.

Citation on Maestro being stronger than WB Hulk?

Maestro is the Hulk from the far future, after nuclear war has wiped everything out and the radiation of it all explicitly powered him up.

Asking for citation, I'll admit I don't have much beyond his presentation and his trouncing of Prof. Hulk, so I could be wrong here. Ultimately irrelevant.

What issues were these?

The entirety of Fear Itself explains that Cul, Odin's brother is his equal and how he uses weapons to empower people. Note that Juggernaut got so powerful they couldn't actually stop him without stripping away the powerup from Cyttorak; and even then he nearly killed the new Juggernaut.

The fight between Thor, and Nul/Angrier (Amped Hulk, and Thing respectively) is Fear Itself #5.

Okay, I looked up a synopsis of this storyline, and I can't find any mention of Hulk using the wishing Well to amp his strength. All I'm seeing is him wishing to bring his friends back to life, and to give his friends what they want.

So I'm gonna need you to cite where it's mentioned that the wishing well is amping him up.

First of all, "I looked up a synopsis", is why you didn't find anything.

As for where it explains what the Wishing Well does, and when Hulk (and the others) wish on it:

Issues #633, and #634.

Will provide scans when I'm back on my desktop.

[Cronus]

Word of God means little ....

So, you're saying, "God's gonna sit this one out?"

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

So, you're saying, "God's gonna sit this one out?"

This God didn't have the feats.

[Jcogginsa]

Right, so...on these boards you actually have to base what you're asserting on feats from the comics, not a synopsis or wiki? Maybe? The general principle is "high feats consistent with the character's presentation".

In which case Worldbreaker Hulk would be definitively stronger than Maestro because Maestro has zero feats putting him on part with Worldbreaker Hulk.

By chance, just so I'm clear, would you care to explain why the feat from HOTM of Hulk breaking a world (sans wishing well magic) is superior to Thanos busting a planet?

Because Hulk didn't just break the planet, the shock wave from the battle was powerful enough to damage a nearby moon as well. So it's planet busting+ while Thanos feat was just planet busting.

Word of God means little on a board that specifically only accepts high end feats consistent with a character's presentation.

And since Worldbreaker Hulk is consistently presented as stronger than the Maestro, Maestro is below Worldbreaker. The only thing Maestro has that can be called comparable is his fight with Sentry in the recent Contest of Champions comic, and I don't know if that's even the same sentry as the one Worldbreaker Hulk fought

Maestro is the Hulk from the far future, after nuclear war has wiped everything out and the radiation of it all explicitly powered him up.

Asking for citation, I'll admit I don't have much beyond his presentation and his trouncing of Prof. Hulk, so I could be wrong here. Ultimately irrelevant.

Maestro is a character who is entirely dependent on scaling. The collateral damage he causes in his fights never reaches the high end feats that the Bronze Age Hulk pulled off.

Worldbreaker Hulk not only vastly outstrips him in actual feats, he does so casually, and he does so while explicitly holding back in order to not harm innocents. And there are explicit statements, both in universe and out of it, that he's the strongest hulk there's ever been.

First of all, "I looked up a synopsis", is why you didn't find anything.

As for where it explains what the Wishing Well does, and when Hulk (and the others) wish on it:

Issues #633, and #634.

Will provide scans when I'm back on my desktop.

Okay, I just read through both those issues, and there is not a single mention of the Wishing Well amping Hulk's power at all.

From the sounds of it, Red She-Hulk got amped, but Hulk didn't. He's just in a place where he no longer has to hold back any.

[Cronus]

In which case Worldbreaker Hulk would be definitively stronger than Maestro because Maestro has zero feats putting him on part with Worldbreaker Hulk.

Sure. If the feat of world breaker Hulk "breaking" a planet was actually legit. But it wasn't. Short story? It's just not a clean feat. Wishing well magic, which Bruce was splashed with at the beginning of the story, made the feat of Hulk (with red She Hulk's help) murky at best. Don't get me wrong, Hulk is strong. But a planet buster? Not so much. And I don't consider him in the same realm as Thanos.

[Jcogginsa]

Sure. If the feat of world breaker Hulk "breaking" a planet was actually legit. But it wasn't. Short story? It's just not a clean feat. Wishing well magic, which Bruce was splashed with at the beginning of the story, made the feat of Hulk (with red She Hulk's help) murky at best. Don't get me wrong, Hulk is strong. But a planet buster? Not so much. And I don't consider him in the same realm as Thanos.

Find me a moment in that story where it is implied that the Hulk increased his own power with the wishing well, and you'll have a point.

But all the evidence I've seen points to that not being the case. There's no mention of it in the synopsis, there's no mention of it in the issues that R'lyeh pointed to.

And even if you ignore the entire Heart of the Monster storyline, WorldBreaker Hulk within the World War Hulk storyline itself is presented in a manner that puts him above Maestro

[Jcogginsa]

Third revision

1. Thanos
2. The Hulk
3. Thor*
4. Superman
5. Wonder Woman
6. Goku
7. Invincible
8. Sun Wukong
9. Akuma
10. Godzilla
11. Buttercup Utonium
12. Blossom Utonium
13. Bubbles Utonium
14. Gamera
15. Aquaman
16. Savage Dragon
17. Ultraman Belial
18. Ultraman
19. Naruto Uzumaki
20. Monkey D. Luffy
21. Astro Boy
22. The Thing
23. Kratos
24. Iron Man
25. Dr. Doom**
26. King Kong
27. Popeye the Sailor Man
28. RX-78 Gundam
29. Kenshiro
30. Optimus Prime
31. Spider-Man
32. Ben 10
33. Mario
34. Steven Universe
35. Samurai Jack
36. Pikachu
37. Po the Panda
38. Stitch
39. Spawn
40. Master Chief
41. Ruby Rose
42. Scrooge McDuck
43. The Terminator
44. Robocop
45. Raphael
46. Leonardo
47. Michelangelo
48. Donatello
49. Loki
50. Captain America
51. Asterix
52. Guts the Black Swordsman
53. Shrek
54. Judge Dredd
55. Conan the Barbarian
56. Hellboy
57. Star Butterfly
58. Buffy Summers
59. Rapunzel
60. Batman
61. Jason Voorhees
62. Avatar Aang
63. Xena
64. Imhotep
65. Rick Sanchez
66. Geralt of Rivia
67. Sherlock Holmes
68. James Bond
69. John Constantine

* Put Hulk above Thor because Devil Hulk is portrayed as being stronger than current Thor in the pages of Immortal Hulk. And World War Hulk is, by both presentation and WoG, stronger than Devil Hulk
** Bumped Doom down because the Thing is typically presented as being stronger than Doom's armor, to the point of mangling Doom's hands in an early iconic moment

[Cronus]

Find me a moment in that story where it is implied that the Hulk increased his own power with the wishing well, and you'll have a point.

A few basic points to begin...Hulk up to this point in time never busted a planet. Bi Beast and Wendigos strength were increased a thousandfold with a backfiring wish. Red She Hulk was stated to be as powerful as world breaker Hulk in that issue. Can you you show me where she made that wish? Just a few basic points. Really, the burden of proof is on you to show Hulk was not amped because of wishing well magic.

But all the evidence I've seen points to that not being the case. There's no mention of it in the synopsis,

"Synopses" have no place on rumbles. Period. End of story.

there's no mention of it in the issues that R'lyeh pointed to.

Read the full story. And Bruce does make a formal wish in the issue 'Thulu points to. So you're wrong there.

And even if you ignore the entire Heart of the Monster storyline, WorldBreaker Hulk within the World War Hulk storyline itself is presented in a manner that puts him above Maestro

Ok.

But a planet buster world breaker Hulk is not. Not without wishing well magic.

[Jcogginsa]

A few basic points to begin...Hulk up to this point in time never busted a planet. Bi Beast and Wendigos strength were increased a thousandfold with a backfiring wish. Red She Hulk was stated to be as powerful as world breaker Hulk in that issue. Can you you show me where she made that wish? Just a few basic points. Really, the burden of proof is on you to show Hulk was not amped because of wishing well magic.

When a character is literally shaking continents just by taking steps, planet busting is not a huge leap.

As for Red She-Hulk, she got amped because Bruce wanted her to be safe from his strength. Thus, she got amped to be equal to Bruce at his strongest. I read the issues, you should too.

Read the full story. And Bruce does make a formal wish in the issue 'Thulu points to. So you're wrong there.

And that Wish is not "Make me stronger", so I'm right.

What you're doing is the equivalent of saying "Goku wished for all the people killed by Cell to come back to life, and since the Dragonballs have gave Piccolo eternal Youth in the past, that means Goku has eternal youth now."

[Nik Hasta]

So, we actually had a whole thread a little while ago going through the Heart of a Monster and Hulk's presentation generally as a guy who fucks with planetary stuff, which you can see here.

Also, what's your rationale on the Ninja Turtles being placed where they are? I'm assuming you're using composite for some reason but I'm struggling to think of feats that would place them above Asterix .

Also, Asterix should be higher than Captain America.

Also, Judge Dredd has zero business being where he is as far as I can recall of his feats and presentation.

Hellboy should also be higher, above Cap certainly and the Turtles barring some ridiculous feats for them.

[Cronus]

When a character is literally shaking continents just by taking steps, planet busting is not a huge leap.

Oh, gotcha. So, you're saying old savage '70's Hulk was potentially a planet buster?

savagehulkhyperion.jpg

Right then. Moving on.

As for Red She-Hulk, she got amped because Bruce wanted her to be safe from his strength. Thus, she got amped to be equal to Bruce at his strongest. I read the issues, you should too.

Where in the story did it say that?

And that's not my point anyway. My point is that Jen never made any formal wish, in thought or verbally, to amp herself to be equal to Hulk.

But Bruce did make a wish to "fight and die, and fight some more"

This resulted in the following clash between Hulk and RSH destroying an entire planet and Hulk and the gang being resurrected to do it all over again.

And that Wish is not "Make me stronger", so I'm right.

What? This statement has literally nothing to do with the statement I'm making.

I mean, at this point...you're just trying to give the appearance that you know what you're talking about, when it's clear at this point, you don't have the first clue do you? There's no shame in saying you don't know, but I suspect you're going to continue this drivel aren't you?

What you're doing is the equivalent of saying "Goku wished for all the people killed by Cell to come back to life, and since the Dragonballs have gave Piccolo eternal Youth in the past, that means Goku has eternal youth now."

Do me a favor? Don't purport to know what "my angle" is, when you don't know me and you haven't read the story in question, but instead are relying in synopses and "credible sources" on the internet.

The feat of Hulk busting a planet is not clean. Not in the least bit.

[Jcogginsa]

So, we actually had a whole thread a little while ago going through the Heart of a Monster and Hulk's presentation generally as a guy who fucks with planetary stuff, which you can see here.

Also, what's your rationale on the Ninja Turtles being placed where they are? I'm assuming you're using composite for some reason but I'm struggling to think of feats that would place them above Asterix .

Also, Asterix should be higher than Captain America.

Also, Judge Dredd has zero business being where he is as far as I can recall of his feats and presentation.

Hellboy should also be higher, above Cap certainly and the Turtles barring some ridiculous feats for them.

1. First off, I want to note that I list in the first power which characters are composited. And yes, the TMNT are one of them.
2. Turtles are where they are because the 80s turtles have are pretty consistently about to break through metal sutff (both armed and unarmed) and in Rise Raph has sent foes blasting off team rocket style by hitting them with a metal ladder.
3. I'll admit, I'm not super familiar with Asterix. What are his feats that put him above Cap?
4. From what I've seen Judge Dredd seems about par with Conan. Where would you put him?
5. What makes you put Hellboy above Cap?

EDIT

I want to make it clear that I am looking at that Hulk thread, and not ignoring it. I only now realised I forgot to put that in this post, and considering my response to Cronus, I want to make that clear

[Jcogginsa]

Where in the story did it say that?

Two pages after the part where they broke the planet, in issue 634.

"You've locked him here in the dark dimension with the woman he's always so desperately loved and hated and who's now just as powerful as he. Free from fear of hurting her, free from fear of his own rage. He's finally at peace in his own insane way."

Tyrannus is explaining how the villain's wishes got Monkey's pawed, and adds in that the situation is also a monkey's paw of what Bruce wants. The implication is pretty obvious

And that's not my point anyway. My point is that Jen never made any formal wish, in thought or verbally, to amp herself to be equal to Hulk.

Because, and I have already explained this to you, THE HULK MADE THE WISH THAT AMPED UP RED SHE-HULK.

What? This statement has literally nothing to do with the statement I'm making.

Your the one who has been claiming that the wishing well amped up the Hulk. So that is exactly the statement you are making an failing to back up.

Do me a favor? Don't purport to know what "my angle" is, when you don't know me and you haven't read the story in question, but instead are relying in synopses and "credible sources" on the internet.

Don't complain someone else pointed out the glaring logical fallacy in your argument.

This entire time, you have been insisting that the Hulk making a wish means he got amped up, and that is just has ludicrous.

Also, I already told you I READ THE ISSUES. So don't try to pretend that I didn't.