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  1. #1
    Incredible Member RD155's Avatar
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    Default How does Marvel feel about the character of MJ?

    Now obviously we know how editorial felt about the marriage at one point or possibly still does....

    My question is how do they feel about the actual character as an individual separate of the marriage? I personally always felt like Marvel didn’t particularly care for the character and they felt that it limited Peter even without them being married simply because the fan base (myself included) associates them together. I might be completely off base with that though.

    They’ve tried in the past to write her off or kill her. Is it solely her immense undeniable popularity that has Marvel keep her around or do they actually care for the character ?

  2. #2
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    I think Marvel have a much more positive outlook on MJ than they did 10 years back.
    For one, she's had her own (short lived) series which was set-up mostly in a special issue of the main Spider-Man title, and they at least acknowledge her and Peter's relationship in multiple comics (I know Abrams Spider-man isn't very popular, but the fact that they were married should at least give us some indication that Marvel also see her and Peter's one true love).

    But I think that's mostly down to Miles Morales which has helped age Peter somewhat. Now Peter doesn't have to be a teenager anymore, he can be an adult. I also believe it's down to the staff being fans of Spider-man during the wedding era. Look at Spencer for example, all of his big story arcs have been sequels to that same 5 year period, with one arc (Hunted) being a sequel to Kraven's Last Hunt, the first comic after the wedding (not including the honeymoon). While I don't know if their marriage will be restored, I'd say it feels like it's going to at least be acknowledged.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Vortex85's Avatar
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    It's hard to pin down feelings to an entire organization. I think it will very from person to person, from writer to writer.

    I think overall Marvel likes MJ and see her as a great character. The specifics of who MJ should be to Peter, her prominence in his lore, etc, will vary depending on who you ask probably as much as it does on any forum or social media you visit. But I'd like to think most professionals in the industry aren't basing their feelings on just ignorance or lack of understanding that you may see with certain fans who don't understand a lot of comic lore. So they may understand her importance a little more than the average joe.

    I think the BND team saw MJ a little different than the current writer and she was almost a taboo for a while, which as a fan of her character was extremely frustrating to see. I'm glad those days are long behind us.
    Last edited by Vortex85; 10-29-2020 at 07:06 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    I think Marvel have a much more positive outlook on MJ than they did 10 years back.
    For one, she's had her own (short lived) series which was set-up mostly in a special issue of the main Spider-Man title, and they at least acknowledge her and Peter's relationship in multiple comics (I know Abrams Spider-man isn't very popular, but the fact that they were married should at least give us some indication that Marvel also see her and Peter's one true love).

    But I think that's mostly down to Miles Morales which has helped age Peter somewhat. Now Peter doesn't have to be a teenager anymore, he can be an adult. I also believe it's down to the staff being fans of Spider-man during the wedding era. Look at Spencer for example, all of his big story arcs have been sequels to that same 5 year period, with one arc (Hunted) being a sequel to Kraven's Last Hunt, the first comic after the wedding (not including the honeymoon). While I don't know if their marriage will be restored, I'd say it feels like it's going to at least be acknowledged.
    I agree with you 100% about Miles. If you go back to two of the worst stories in Spider-Man history ( Clone Saga and OMD/BND) they happened for the exact same reason: Fear of what will happen if Peter grew up and of course the financial implications of it. With the success of Miles ( including an Oscar), Marvel and their Disney Corporate Patent no longer need to worry about this. There is room for both Peter and Miles ( as well as their supporting cast ( MJ included)), and they can continue to make lots of money off of Spider-Man, which is priority #1.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 10-29-2020 at 08:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I agree with you 100% about Miles. If you go back to two of he worst stories in Spider-Man history ( Clone Saga and OMD/BND) they happened for the exact same reason: Fear of what will happen if Peter grew up and of course the financial implications of it. With the success of Miles ( including an Oscar), Marvel and their Disney Corporate Patent no longer need to worry about this. There is room for both Peter and Miles ( as well as their supporting cast ( MJ included)), and they can continue to make lots of money off of Spider-Man, which is priority #1.
    I never understood why BND is always included in the "OMD is bad" rant?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I never understood why BND is always included in the "OMD is bad" rant?
    BND starting with that horrible cover is the beginning of Peter as a “Man Child.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I never understood why BND is always included in the "OMD is bad" rant?
    It's purely down to BND only exists because of OMD. It was meant to be a reboot of the Character with a new rogue's gallery, supporting cast etc.
    One More Day can exist without Brand New Day, but Brand New Day can't exist without One More Day.

    (I personally see them as two separate entities, OMD is just a story arc while BND is an entire era which was a bit hit or miss).

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    Incredible Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    It's purely down to BND only exists because of OMD. It was meant to be a reboot of the Character with a new rogue's gallery, supporting cast etc.
    One More Day can exist without Brand New Day, but Brand New Day can't exist without One More Day.

    (I personally see them as two separate entities, OMD is just a story arc while BND is an entire era which was a bit hit or miss).
    More miss then hit lol.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    It's purely down to BND only exists because of OMD.
    It's more that Brand New Day was promoted and sold as a kind of justification for One More Day. Quesada said that the marriage restricted stories and so on. A brassy title like "brand new day" (which implies that what happened before was 'yesterday' or old and so on...cheap marketing subtext and all that) was intended to sell that era as "new Spider-Man on the block" in the 'what up cool kids' sense.

    BND was generally mediocre and in most cases rehashes of stuff that was done before, and in a large sense, it failed to make the case for OMD i.e. a) These stories needed to happen, b) They could only have happened without the marriag.e

    -- When Spider-Man graduated and went to college...Lee-Ditko whipped up The Master Planner Saga, a story that could only ever have been told with a college age Peter.
    -- When Spider-Man got married...DeMatteis-Zeck gave us Kraven's Last Hunt, which works the way it does because of the marriage.

    Both the previous cases when you had a major status-quo change, you had an instant masterpiece. In the case of OMD...you didn't have that. No defender of BND will claim reasonably that any story in that run is on the level of the MP Saga and KLH. Is that a tall and unfair order, i.e. asking BND writers to do a KLH and MP level story? Sure, but then when you make a big change in the continuity, you do need to back it up.

  10. #10
    Incredible Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I never understood why BND is always included in the "OMD is bad" rant?
    BND and OMD are synonymous with each other. When fans think of OMD they usually bunch BND in with it. BND suffered to me because of the insistence of writing Peter as a man child. I had no desire to see him revert back to that and have them strip layers of development away from him.

    OMD opened the door for BND. They will always be connected because of that.

    Also I never cared for the usage of MJ during BND. I felt like OMD tried to put a nail in her and then BND decided to drag her through the mud. Her characterization through out just never stuck with me.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Vortex85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I never understood why BND is always included in the "OMD is bad" rant?
    IMO, BND is worse than OMD.

    The OMD story itself was interesting moral dilemma and while I disagree with the deal, I can read and appreciate the story.

    However, BND took Spider-Man in the direction I despise and lived out the consequences of what editorial wanted for the character through OMD. BND contains a soulless shell of a character who I don't enjoy reading about. I cannot stand that era and I can't even stomach to read most of the stories in it even though I've tried. It also contains one of the worst stories ever, OMIT, in that era which is even worse than OMD itself.

    If OMD happened and then the stories picked up similar to how they were at the beginning of Spencer's run, I may have not have dropped the book or left the title for as long as I did.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I agree with you 100% about Miles. If you go back to two of the worst stories in Spider-Man history ( Clone Saga and OMD/BND) they happened for the exact same reason: Fear of what will happen if Peter grew up and of course the financial implications of it. With the success of Miles ( including an Oscar), Marvel and their Disney Corporate Patent no longer need to worry about this. There is room for both Peter and Miles ( as well as their supporting cast ( MJ included)), and they can continue to make lots of money off of Spider-Man, which is priority #1.
    I think another thing is, whether people like admitting it or not, Spider-Gwen is starting to overtake regular Gwen Stacy in the public conscious.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    I think another thing is, whether people like admitting it or not, Spider-Gwen is starting to overtake regular Gwen Stacy in the public conscious.
    Keeping the topic on MJ, I find it also kind of interesting that (at least from my perspective) this has kind of disassociated MJ and Gwen from each other in a way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Keeping the topic on MJ, I find it also kind of interesting that (at least from my perspective) this has kind of disassociated MJ and Gwen from each other in a way.
    Gwen and MJ have long been disassociated from each other at least in 616. No clearer example was ASM 121 heading into ASM 122. Conway set things up for MJ to take over for Gwen immediately.Think about it, he could have had Peter go full Frank Castle on Norman ( an idea that was certainly possible since he first appeared 7 issues later), but he used MJ to stop Peter from acting on his worst instincts. As for Ghost Spider, there is no doubt she is more popular then the Original. Why? The little girls of today are interested in the character, while few girls in the pet ASM 121 era were interested in super hero comics.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    My question is how do they feel about the actual character as an individual separate of the marriage?
    Among (some) writers and (some) editors, there's a resentment to Mary Jane because they can't bottle her into being "a" love interest like they can with Felicia Hardy or Gwen. She is the love interest for Peter and there's really nothing anyone can do about it. The drive among some Marvel writers and editors to say Gwen is the true love is an attempt to undermine her status even if there's not much they can do to make Gwen happen. After all if Gwen was the true love and she's dead, that means every relationship Peter has had after Gwen is somehow invalid or rebound and not meant to last...at least that's how writers would have liked that to go down. The fact is they can't and it didn't go that way.

    I personally always felt like Marvel didn’t particularly care for the character and they felt that it limited Peter even without them being married simply because the fan base (myself included) associates them together. I might be completely off base with that though.
    Marvel is NOT a sentient being capable of independent consciousness. It's a corporation, currently owned by Disney, with employees at different levels and spaces, all of them with views that are different from one another and also change in time. Marvel employees in one decade will have different opinions from employees in another. As such the feelings and sentiments of the people currently at Marvel don't matter one jot in terms of validity one way or another. So that's important to keep in mind. We have to separate the executives, the marketers, the writers and editors...and that was Pre-Disney. Now it's probably a bit different. Marketers like Mary Jane a lot hence these variant covers, and Male Gaze-y stuff that J. Scott Campbell put out. Marketers at Marvel are quite aware that Mary Jane Watson is one of their most popular and beloved characters. For instance, the entire Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane series was commissioned in the wake of the success of the Spider-Man films because Marvel execs pointed out she had in effect become the "First Lady" of marvel after the success of the Raimi films. Some writers at Disney Animation cite Mary Jane Watson as a prominent Marvel female character they'd like to spotlight (https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/nycc-d...younger-heroes) placing her, a civilian supporting character, alongside other heroes.

    They’ve tried in the past to write her off or kill her. Is it solely her immense undeniable popularity that has Marvel keep her around or do they actually care for the character ?
    Yeah. Mary Jane's popularity is the main thing that's kept her from being forgotten and shelved. She's made more appearances than any other Spider-Man character in 616, after Peter. She made appearances outside Spider-Man books, Hostess Cakes commercials, and so on. Her popularity renews itself every decade.

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