Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 189
  1. #31
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    That's the DCAU, not the DCEU.
    The person I responded said the DCEU. And she was mistreated in the JL movie.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The person I responded said the DCEU. And she was mistreated in the JL movie.
    She came off the movie looking pretty good IMO. Unlike in the comics which is at the 37th repeat of "Who is Wonder Woman."

  3. #33
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,754

    Default

    It seems, understandably in many ways, that it's hard to grasp how "like" is irrelevant to many decisions and outcomes. I'm sure for many people, Superman is business. Creatively, the easiest thing for me to point at is that Grant Morrison lasted longer and sold better on Batman.
    Welcome or welcome back! Please check out the updated
    CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,220

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    That didn't bother me, on any other show this would be reversed. It was nice to see him boosting a C-lister, and a woman!, like that. And isn't was the first time Supergirl was stronger than Superman, that happened in the comics before the CW. They bothered because everyone knows fans like when their heroes are validated and it was her show.
    Another reason Pre-Crisis writers sit above the Post-Crisis writers is precisely because they worked to actually build up characters via showing them do incredible things via actual feats of skill and intellect where as the Post-Crisis writers tend to just find better established characters to feed to characters that don't measure up. It's lazy writing another issue plaguing DC comics for the past couple decades.

    I'm not sure how, when or why Superman's fanbase became so welcoming to these depictions of him being lowered to raise up some character the writers of said character can't be bothered to put in the work to actually show in an impressive fashion. It's grade school writing from adults.
    Last edited by The World; 10-30-2020 at 07:09 AM.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  5. #35
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    Another reason Pre-Crisis writers sit above the Post-Crisis writers is precisely because they worked to actually build up characters via showing them do incredible things via actual feats of skill and intellect where as the Post-Crisis writers tend to just find better established characters to feed to characters that don't measure up. It's lazy writing another issue plaguing DC comics for the past couple decades.

    I'm not sure how, when or why Superman's fanbase became so welcoming to these depictions of him being lowered.
    This is not limited to post-crisis writers nor do post-crisis writers only limit themselves to jobbing out established characters.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,220

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    This is not limited to post-crisis writers nor do post-crisis writers only limit themselves to jobbing out established characters.
    Yeah sure it's not completely limited to Post-Crisis but it's easily 90% in favor of Post-Crisis. The Pre-Crisis writers had to actually establish the parameters the Post-Crisis writers have been pitifully trying to manipulate. It wouldn't be impressive for Kara, or Bruce, or Jon to upstage Superman if the Pre-Crisis writers hadn't done the backbreaking work of making him an actually impressive figure to emulate or surpass.The Pre-Crisis writers were too busy trying to create while the Post-Crisis writers have been too busy trying to subvert and destroy hence the fanfic pieces Johns pumped out lately.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Ra-El's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    2,462

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    This is not limited to post-crisis writers nor do post-crisis writers only limit themselves to jobbing out established characters.
    But post-crisis is definitely when Superman was turned into the main jobber of the DCU.

  8. #38
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,754

    Default

    That's a weird misconception. DKR itself had nothing to do with post crisis and neither did Kara during Crisis... if we're talking about upstaging. Wolfman doubled down on that specific idea when he revisited that story. None of that reflects on his popularity outside of saying he's the guy to beat anyway, and doesn't really factor into how much they like him rather than how well they hope to sell other characters.
    Welcome or welcome back! Please check out the updated
    CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

  9. #39
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    But post-crisis is definitely when Superman was turned into the main jobber of the DCU.
    Superman is nowhere near close to being the main jobber of the DCU. Captain Atom, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter far easily fit that role.

  10. #40
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    9,485

    Default

    Dc likes money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Captain Atom and Martian Manhunter far easily fit that role.
    You seriously need to watch wrestling. Both these characters can't job because they aren't popular enough. Beating manhunter wouldn't be news. It won't get any character over with the crowd. If puppy krypto beats baby groot that's jobbing. Cause groot is actually more over with crowd. Puppy krypto would be elevated.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-30-2020 at 09:04 AM.

  11. #41
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Superman is nowhere near close to being the main jobber of the DCU. Captain Atom, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter far easily fit that role.
    I can see Captain Atom and MM, but I don't think WW and Superman job enough to be in that crowd.

  12. #42
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Dc likes money.


    You seriously need to watch wrestling. Both these characters can't job because they aren't popular enough. Beating manhunter wouldn't be news. It won't get any character over with the crowd. If puppy krypto beats baby groot that's jobbing. Cause groot is actually more over with crowd. Puppy krypto would be elevated.
    Jobbing has nothing to do with popularity. Anyone can serve that role regardless of how popular they are.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,634

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Jobbing has nothing to do with popularity. Anyone can serve that role regardless of how popular they are.
    I'd say more popular doesn't mean you don't job at all, but the more popular the character the more that other characters job to the popular one. None of this nonsense about how Batman can beat the entire JLA ever becomes a myth if Batman is a third-tier character.

    I'd also say that on the opposite end of the spectrum, the less popular you are, the more you get picked as the victim of the Worf Effect for someone else.

    The nicest thing I can say for Superman is that he has the reputation for physical toughness that he's an easy choice for the guy who has to be taken down a notch.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,954

    Default

    Superman has definitely been the biggest jobber post-Crisis. And, yes, For Tomorrow was definitely mopey. Azzarello's WW run was light years better.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,234

    Default

    I think things are too impersonal to consider how they view him as "dislike." They know he's important and continues to make money despite taking hits in popularity, they just mostly don't understand why. They are apathetic, not malicious, and in some ways that may be worse. But we don't have to take it as malicious, personal slights towards the character. And he's hardly alone in that boat, their entire catalogue of characters aren't consistently treated well aside from Batman.

    And you think Batman is completely safe? The day he stops making money and the popularity of the unpleasant thing they gradually turned him into begins to fade, they will of course start to drop him like a sack of **** and try to seize on something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The box office returns for the films say otherwise. And For Tomorrow wasn't mopey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    “Mopey” isn’t at all how I’d describe Johns Superman stuff. Lee being the CCO and pushing that take makes sense, but the trend started long before he got the job.

    WB wasn’t happy with the box office returns, hence why there hasn’t been a Superman sequel while Shazam is getting one. Cavill and Snyder were disappointments who didn’t recoup large enough returns on their budgets. I mean Superman Returns made more money than Batman Begins yet that franchise didn’t get continued either. BvS coasted entirely off of hype, and had one of the worst second weekend drops of all time because of how bad everyone thought it was. It’s the only movie with that kind of first weekend box office to not break a billion.
    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Have to agree with all of this. When looking at how a movie did in its opening weekend, and how it fared afterward, BvS is one of the most disappointing movies of all time. This graph here pretty much says it all. I can't imagine another movie which benefited so much from great marketing, but got derailed so badly from poor word of mouth.
    MOS did very well for a rebooted origin story movie despite it's reputation. I think that shows people were still hyped about Superman. Helps that it wasn't as bad as what came after

    BvS though, yeah it made most of its money in its first week because it was set up as a big event. And it was, the two most well knows superheroes meeting together for the first time on the big screen after trying to get it off of the ground for decades? Plus Wonder Woman? Ed Wood could have made that thing and it likely would have done well the first week. All the thing had to be was a competent, entertaining blockbuster and it would have made as much money if not a little more than it did with a better reputation.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •