Does DC like Superman?

[Steel Inquisitor]

I wouldn't say that even TV know what to do with him since the fact that his last three TV appearances have just been for Relationship drama's and that's been it. Hardly the paragon for truth and justice when it seems he's going to be a stay at home dad that only comes back to action because melissa benoist has had enough. Also giving him a 10 year old kid wasn't new or clever, it's a tried and tested formula that's worked in media for decades, especially when they've run out of ideas.

Superman isn't the star on Supergirl's show and him talking a back seat is fine. There's more to him than punching bad guys. Except super-heroes having kids is not the norm, especially not live action Superman. The only time this happened in the past was Superman Returns, and Superman was a dead beat dad in that. Characters evolve, which Superman does over time so him having kids is a more mature Superman rather than staying in the same old routine. They clearly have ideas since they're making a show about Superman with these kids.

But it's as you seem to note in this post, I don't think it's that they hate superman. It's just that they don't know what to do with pretty much all DC comics character besides the Bat family so they place all their chips on him.

They're been improving in tv and movies the last few years, the problem is that Snyder's kneecapped Cavill so they can't rely on him as much as they used to. Wonder Woman's had bigger issues with DC management, yet she's got a movie sequel coming out by Patty Jenkins.

[Laufeyson]

Well, they do love Superman, even if sometimes they really **** him up or sometimes doesn't care with him. Now the problem with many people are they think WB hates him which is not true. WB doesn't understand him is the right mindset. It's not the Marvel (Brubaker/Slott/Quesada/Ewing/Cates/Bendis/Waid/Zdarsky) scenario where the writers and the publisher put character in bad or weird situation to spice the story and character up. It's more into WB and DC don't understand him, so they sometimes **** him up. BUT, they are trying. At least they are trying.

[ssupes]

Superman isn't the star on Supergirl's show and him talking a back seat is fine. There's more to him than punching bad guys.

Maybe if they didn't use him for the worf effect or make him say that Kara is a better hero then he ever could be then maybe I'd agree, but since that wasn't the case then one has to question why they bothered other then to make Kara seem better.

Except super-heroes having kids is not the norm, especially not live action Superman. The only time this happened in the past was Superman Returns, and Superman was a dead beat dad in that. Characters evolve, which Superman does over time so him having kids is a more mature Superman rather than staying in the same old routine. They clearly have ideas since they're making a show about Superman with these kids.

Just because they have ideas doesn't mean they'll be good and while characters do evolve it didn't seem the case when Jon was introduced, if anything it was more superman being reactionary to Jon and his development. And while kids in superhero comics may not be have been the norm (though many have tried before until they get retconned) in other forms of media they have or normally it's some kid relation that just happens to appear, mainly to boost ratings.

They're been improving in tv and movies the last few years, the problem is that Snyder's kneecapped Cavill so they can't rely on him as much as they used to. Wonder Woman's had bigger issues with DC management, yet she's got a movie sequel coming out by Patty Jenkins.

This I do agree with and TBH i'm just waiting for them to superman 4 wonder woman so she can't escape the one place where no one can escape. Not the phantom zone but development hell.

[Vordan]

Echoing what other people have said, WB/DC likes money. That’s all they care about. Evil Superman has made lots of money so they keep doing it. Batman, and Batman beating up Superman, makes lots of money so they keep doing it. What I don’t get is why they keep doubling down on mopey Superman given that doesn’t seem to be making money. Cavill and For Tomorrow were disappointments yet for some reason that characterization is popular with WB/AT&T.

Am I disappointed and frustrated with how Superman has been treated? Absolutely. But WW has arguably been treated worse and is only now getting the respect she deserves thanks to her movie’s success. Superman got three animated movies this year, he’s getting a TV show, he still has two comic book ongoings. Tom King has a Superfamily project in the works, Waid probably has one too, we got two all time great Superman books with Fraction’s Jimmy Olsen and Yang’s Smashes The Klan. Wonder Comics featured Superman heavily and he had fantastic showings in Dial H & Wonder Twins. Compare that with how Hal Jordan post movie flop/Johns or Green Arrow have been treated post Arrow (dude has no movie/show/cartoon/ or even a comic) and Supes has undeniably been treated far better.

But that is also kinda the frustrating part. No matter how well he’s doing or not doing in comics, he still hasn’t had that big success in outside media like a movie or a video game. I’m hopeful for the TV show, I don’t expect greatness, but as long as it’s enjoyable it will be more than he’s had since Smallville.

[Agent Z]

Well, there have been some cases where we KNOW that Dan DiDio didn't like a particular character because of what he expressly stated. For example, we know that DiDio DiD not like Wonder Woman so that isn't an assumption. I am not aware of any comments like that for Superman. The closest I encountered was Dan's dislike of Linda Danvers Supergirl.

Where was it stated DiDio didn't like Wonder Woman?

[Laufeyson]

Echoing what other people have said, WB/DC likes money. That’s all they care about. Evil Superman has made lots of money so they keep doing it. Batman, and Batman beating up Superman, make slots of money so they keep doing it. What I don’t get is why they keep doubling down on mopey Superman given that doesn’t seem to be making money. Cavill and For Tomorrow were disappointments yet for some reason that characterization is popular with WB/AT&T.

I don't know, maybe because Johns write Superman like that in his Action Comic and Superman run? Maybe because Jim Lee draw For Tomorrow and want the book to be the main go Superman? Or maybe AT&T or WB don't understand Superman really well and just listening what DC really think Superman is from Johns and Lee who write those stories featuring mopey Superman.

[Agent Z]

What I don’t get is why they keep doubling down on mopey Superman given that doesn’t seem to be making money.

The box office returns for the films say otherwise. And For Tomorrow wasn't mopey.

[Vordan]

I don't know, maybe because Johns write Superman like that in his Action Comic and Superman run? Maybe because Jim Lee draw For Tomorrow and want the book to be the main go Superman? Or maybe AT&T or WB don't understand Superman really well and just listening what DC really think Superman is from Johns and Lee who write those stories featuring mopey Superman.

“Mopey” isn’t at all how I’d describe Johns Superman stuff. Lee being the CCO and pushing that take makes sense, but the trend started long before he got the job.

The box office returns for the films say otherwise. And For Tomorrow wasn't mopey.

WB wasn’t happy with the box office returns, hence why there hasn’t been a Superman sequel while Shazam is getting one. Cavill and Snyder were disappointments who didn’t recoup large enough returns on their budgets. I mean Superman Returns made more money than Batman Begins yet that franchise didn’t get continued either. BvS coasted entirely off of hype, and had one of the worst second weekend drops of all time because of how bad everyone thought it was. It’s the only movie with that kind of first weekend box office to not break a billion.
So no that characterization doesn’t make money. Not enough to make WB green light sequels, and far less than the MCU movies make.

For Tomorrow absolutely was mopey, how can you say otherwise? The entire first half was Clark in a foul mood because of the disappearance of all those people. It made sense for him to be mopey and moody, but the story didn’t connect the way Hush did and has largely been written off and forgotten.

[DochaDocha]

WB wasn’t happy with the box office returns, hence why there hasn’t been a Superman sequel while Shazam is getting one. Cavill and Snyder were disappointments who didn’t recoup large enough returns on their budgets. I mean Superman Returns made more money than Batman Begins yet that franchise didn’t get continued either. BvS coasted entirely off of hype, and had one of the worst second weekend drops of all time because of how bad everyone thought it was. It’s the only movie with that kind of first weekend box office to not break a billion.

Have to agree with all of this. When looking at how a movie did in its opening weekend, and how it fared afterward, BvS is one of the most disappointing movies of all time. This graph here pretty much says it all. I can't imagine another movie which benefited so much from great marketing, but got derailed so badly from poor word of mouth.

But bringing us back to the topic, do I believe we as Superman fans collectively would've liked the DCEU more if the guys in charge made it a priority to make Superman as interesting and highly-developed as possible? Yes. Put it this way, dislike of Superman didn't kill DCEU Superman, but a little extra love might've made a difference. For comparison's sake, I don't think BTAS would've been as good if the creators had a general indifference toward Batman. Speaking of the Bat, too bad WB spammed the panic button at the box office returns and critical reception and insisted on making the next Superman film as Bat-centric as possible, and spoiled Superman for the current generation.

[Frontier]

“Mopey” isn’t at all how I’d describe Johns Superman stuff. Lee being the CCO and pushing that take makes sense, but the trend started long before he got the job.

Yeah, Johns' Superman was sad or conflicted at times but most of the time he was a pretty direct man of action.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Maybe if they didn't use him for the worf effect or make him say that Kara is a better hero then he ever could be then maybe I'd agree, but since that wasn't the case then one has to question why they bothered other then to make Kara seem better.

That didn't bother me, on any other show this would be reversed. It was nice to see him boosting a C-lister, and a woman!, like that. And isn't was the first time Supergirl was stronger than Superman, that happened in the comics before the CW. They bothered because everyone knows fans like when their heroes are validated and it was her show.

Just because they have ideas doesn't mean they'll be good and while characters do evolve it didn't seem the case when Jon was introduced, if anything it was more superman being reactionary to Jon and his development. And while kids in superhero comics may not be have been the norm (though many have tried before until they get retconned) in other forms of media they have or normally it's some kid relation that just happens to appear, mainly to boost ratings.

Nobody knows their ideas, the pilot hasn't premiered. Every show, and media, does things to boost ratings, it's how they do things that matter not that they do this.

This I do agree with and TBH i'm just waiting for them to superman 4 wonder woman so she can't escape the one place where no one can escape. Not the phantom zone but development hell.

Why? In the DCEU she's never been mistreated, even in Batman vs Superman she shined.

[Vordan]

I can’t believe people are still sore about Superman being a jobber on the Supergirl show. It seems like they cancelled her show to make way for his so he won in the end anyway

Does anyone seriously think now that they can make a Superman show they’re not going to lean into him being the bestest and brightest? Supes and Flash are pretty much going to have to carry the DCTV verse now that Arrow and Supergirl are ending.

[Agent Z]

Why? In the DCEU she's never been mistreated,

She was in Justice League.

[Agent Z]

Just because they have ideas doesn't mean they'll be good and while characters do evolve it didn't seem the case when Jon was introduced, if anything it was more superman being reactionary to Jon and his development. And while kids in superhero comics may not be have been the norm (though many have tried before until they get retconned) in other forms of media they have or normally it's some kid relation that just happens to appear, mainly to boost ratings.

They're not the norm in other media either. Most adaptations leave them out entirely.

[Steel Inquisitor]

She was in Justice League.

That's the DCAU, not the DCEU.