Does DC like Superman?

[Gaius]

I wouldn't really consider the JL fight making the other members look bad or Superman taking a crap on other characters, with the exception of Wonder Woman. The power level difference for everyone else is exactly what it should be.

Wonder Woman didn't have to lose, or even if she still did she definitely shouldn't have gone down that quickly. But people shouldn't be gasping and clutching their pearls if he walks over Aquaman, Cyborg and Batman in a fight. Like lol, what the hell did you think they were gonna do against a pissed off Kryptonian who isn't screwing around? It's not like we had J'onn, a GL or Captain Marvel there and also getting curb stomped, then we'd have some serious BS going on. But we didn't. Nobody in their right mind (fans or casuals) expects Aquaman or Cyborg to be as powerful as Superman, so nobody holds it against them if they are taken out quickly by him.

Again, the only debatable issue is Wonder Woman. With everyone else, that scene was just reaffirming how things are.

I guess for me it's not really a question to me of power levels just what was the benefit of this scene to anyone in that. The films already made clear Superman's strength and I don't really see how Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg get any benefit getting jobbed out/shown as redundant in their film debuts. Wonder Woman at least had a her own (good) film to fall back on and so did Aquaman eventually.

I think its a YMMV issue but for me that scene really didn't serve much of a purpose beyond just letting Superman flex on others in the same way Batman writers at their worst treat other DC heroes. Then again, the less I think the JL film (whether Whedon or Snyder) is referred back to going forward is probably for the better.

[NaVi]

WW, Flash, Green Lantern, they are physically the same as Superman, but although Superman has 20 weaknesses, they do not have any, it is not worth that Superman has heat vision or icy breath, they also have extra powers, if you leave things at their normal level, Superman is the weakest by far (a lot of weaknesses) to avoid being so weak and show that he brings something to the league beyond his stupid speeches, you can only do 3 things.
1: you eliminate their weaknesses.
2: you create weaknesses for others.
3: you make it very strong.
in jl they chose 3.

[SiegePerilous02]

I guess for me it's not really a question to me of power levels just what was the benefit of this scene to anyone in that. The films already made clear Superman's strength and I don't really see how Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg get any benefit getting jobbed out/shown as redundant in their film debuts. Wonder Woman at least had a her own (good) film to fall back on and so did Aquaman eventually.

I think its a YMMV issue but for me that scene really didn't serve much of a purpose beyond just letting Superman flex on others in the same way Batman writers at their worst treat other DC heroes. Then again, the less I think the JL film (whether Whedon or Snyder) is referred back to going forward is probably for the better.

There has been a lot of pushback in recent years towards the notion that Superman is the most powerful. Scenes like this are going to be pushback against the pushback. They could have found a way for Superman to flex other than this and been able to satisfy more people though. But it was refreshing to see Cavill get to act like a confident and very powerful Superman in the last act. As he was one of the few well received aspects of the film (moustache aside lol), I think it highlights how starved we were for a Superman of that type if we need to look to this as being refreshing.

Aquaman going on to make a billion kind of proves that although the scene may have been pointless, it didn't do any damage to the other characters either. Nobody expects Aquaman to be as powerful as Superman, of course they are not going to care about that in Aquaman's own movie where the other heroes aren't even factors.

[DochaDocha]

I think he could do that without the exaggeration of slapstick.

Understood, but sometimes you need a lot of extra emphasis to point out that a feat is not so easy as most superhero shenanigans make it seem to be.

[stargazer01]

I didn't know Kevin Feige liked Superman so much... I know he is a big fan of Superman the Movie, but apparently he was really excited when he thought James Gunn was making a Superman movie.... I'm so relieved Gunn decided to pass on it because I can't stand the guy and I feel he's wrong for the character.


Any way, it's nice to see that some people in Hollywood think Superman is cool and awesome.

I wasn't sure about starting a new thread for this topic..

[KC]

Understood, but sometimes you need a lot of extra emphasis to point out that a feat is not so easy as most superhero shenanigans make it seem to be.

Again, I think you could make a feat look like it takes effort without it reaching the levels of Slapstick. At worst I think it could end up like the first flight scene from Man of Steel where he falls from his flight into the ground, but even then, that scene never really felt slapsticky.

[stargazer01]

what exactly do you guys mean by slapstick comedy in Superman media?

Can you give examples of this that you think worked and could still work today? Superhero movies are not what they used to be decades ago. We all saw how bad Superman and Clark Kent looked in Superman 4 with all the over the top comedy..

[Powerboy]

WW, Flash, Green Lantern, they are physically the same as Superman, but although Superman has 20 weaknesses, they do not have any, it is not worth that Superman has heat vision or icy breath, they also have extra powers, if you leave things at their normal level, Superman is the weakest by far (a lot of weaknesses) to avoid being so weak and show that he brings something to the league beyond his stupid speeches, you can only do 3 things.
1: you eliminate their weaknesses.
2: you create weaknesses for others.
3: you make it very strong.
in jl they chose 3.

This originated in a time when Superman's powers dwarfed everybody else's so they had to give him extra weaknesses. One way to deal with it is to do what Justice League did and make him way more powerful than everybody else. But there's backlash against that, particularly regarding WW. The other alternative is to dump his weaknesses or say they have a minor effect. But then, when a GL survives a planet destroying explosion, it's okay. When WW is as strong as Superman, it's okay. When the Flash is faster than Superman, it's great. When Superman can move the Moon or does any of the stuff the others do, he's too powerful.

I'd go with three, he's more powerful than everyone else. I say that because he's going to get hit with that "overpowered" accusation by people who don't like the character no matter what so it's better to appeal to those who want him to be Superman rather than trying to appeal to people who will always make the overpowered accusation anyway.

[Stanlos]

I wouldn't really consider the JL fight making the other members look bad or Superman taking a crap on other characters, with the exception of Wonder Woman. The power level difference for everyone else is exactly what it should be.

Wonder Woman didn't have to lose, or even if she still did she definitely shouldn't have gone down that quickly. But people shouldn't be gasping and clutching their pearls if he walks over Aquaman, Cyborg and Batman in a fight. Like lol, what the hell did you think they were gonna do against a pissed off Kryptonian who isn't screwing around? It's not like we had J'onn, a GL or Captain Marvel there and also getting curb stomped, then we'd have some serious BS going on. But we didn't. Nobody in their right mind (fans or casuals) expects Aquaman or Cyborg to be as powerful as Superman, so nobody holds it against them if they are taken out quickly by him.

Again, the only debatable issue is Wonder Woman. With everyone else, that scene was just reaffirming how things are.

You're right, Siege. My issue with the battle was Wonder Woman's depiction. Obviously it wasn't going to match the (Pre-Flashpoint) comics but it wasn't even consistent within its own continuity. Although I guess the argument could be made she was participating only reluctantly and she was fine at the end.

[DochaDocha]

what exactly do you guys mean by slapstick comedy in Superman media?

Can you give examples of this that you think worked and could still work today? Superhero movies are not what they used to be decades ago. We all saw how bad Superman and Clark Kent looked in Superman 4 with all the over the top comedy..

For me, "slapstick" can be as simple as some of the physical comedy we saw in movies such as Iron Man, Iron Man 3, and Thor: Ragnarok.

If I had to create a scenario for Morrison Superman, it could be like a scene in which Superman tried to break the sound barrier on foot, but the first time he tried his shoes blew out (like the Zion Williamson incident in his one season at Duke) and he face planted.

[manwhohaseverything]

Well at least i definitively stop with reading DC comics for good if that happens, Bat God is bad enough already and humiliating or putting down other superheroes to make him look better, is the ugliest route i could imagine as idea for not just Superman but any of DC characters. Saitama is One Punch Man and it is the concept that he stomps on other characters, Superman is not DC but just a part of it and many share his main concept, which is not even stomping on other characters to begin with.

Actually, many exist because of his rise in popularity. Just because others share his concept doesn't mean superman has to play subservient to them. Dc has other overpowered entities like dr. Manhattan, Darkseid,... Etc. He isn't just part of dc. He is meant to be a limitless being of power, potential and talent. Batman is supposed to be human in realistic sense. He is sold as such. Yet, he starts doing things that aren't supposed to be his domain. That's why bat-god is hated. It makes batman, a gary-stu.Either, you get rid of shared universe or have the character be at the top of power hierarchy. Why? Cause you can't do morality plays of limitless being with him middle part of the hierarchy. All star is set in a different verse and it works.

This kinda thing can't be done with current superman.
Having said that my problem is, Clark's reaction to loses. Its screams of a guy that's soft and too comfortable with himself . People who say they like losing are kidding themselves. Clark should absolutely try his hardest and push himself with people who are clearly his superior. Atleast in current scenario. He should absolutely workout or do punishment laps or something to show that the guy is trying and isn't comfortable with himself.

For me, "slapstick" can be as simple as some of the physical comedy we saw in movies such as Iron Man, Iron Man 3, and Thor: Ragnarok.

What particular instances in those movies? I didn't find any slapstick comedy in those. It's the normal mcu quippy humor. Hulk punching thor in avengers is the only one i could point to as genuine laughter enducing slapstick. Other than that, mcu doesn't really have much variety in humour.

Also, I don't really get the reluctance to slapstick. I mean, is it offensive or something in modern age?mr.bean is slapstick.So, is jackie chan. The character was inpired by slapstick. Clark kent persona is literally an act. Even, donner employed some of that with clark catching a bullet and fainting.

what exactly do you guys mean by slapstick comedy in Superman media?

Jackie chan is an action hero who emplyees lot of slapstick humor into action sequences he does. Just look him up. The clumsy routine, accidentally punching bad guy, acting like getting hurt... Etc.Three greatest slapstick comedians are buster keaton, harold lloyd and charlie chapplin. Harold lloyd is an inspiration for clark kent persona .

[DochaDocha]

What particular instances in those movies? I didn't find any slapstick comedy in those. It's the normal mcu quippy humor. Hulk punching thor in avengers is the only one i could point to as genuine laughter enducing slapstick. Other than that, mcu doesn't really have much variety in humour.

Also, I don't really get the reluctance to slapstick. I mean, is it offensive or something in modern age?mr.bean is slapstick.So, is jackie chan. The character was inpired by slapstick. Clark kent persona is literally an act. Even, donner employed some of that with clark catching a bullet and fainting.

The most slapsticky moment from Iron Man was when he was testing the prototype suit's propulsion, and it slammed him into the ceiling (something like that in real life would've been bone-shattering). I think one of the robots then hosed him with the fire extinguisher, which was a running gag in that film every time a test didn't go exactly as planned, which was periodic.

Iron Man 3 has a couple such scenes, mostly involving his new suit's ability to equip itself by flying at him piece by piece. Another scene I could think of was after the unmanned suit saved the flight crew, it was promptly run over by a truck.

Thor Ragnarok has at least one scene. The one that comes to mind was when he was being cocky about walking out of the Grandmaster's compound after tricking Valkyrie, chucking a ball against the window, and having the ball bounce awkwardly right off his head.

Maybe the word "slapstick" introduces some confusion and room for interpretation, but the Marvel movies do utilize physical comedy. So from here on out, I'll avoid using "slapstick" and stick to "physical comedy." And I support using more physical comedy in live-action Superman TV and movies.

[manwhohaseverything]

The most slapsticky moment from Iron Man was when he was testing the prototype suit's propulsion, and it slammed him into the ceiling (something like that in real life would've been bone-shattering). I think one of the robots then hosed him with the fire extinguisher, which was a running gag in that film every time a test didn't go exactly as planned, which was periodic.

Iron Man 3 has a couple such scenes, mostly involving his new suit's ability to equip itself by flying at him piece by piece. Another scene I could think of was after the unmanned suit saved the flight crew, it was promptly run over by a truck.

Thor Ragnarok has at least one scene. The one that comes to mind was when he was being cocky about walking out of the Grandmaster's compound after tricking Valkyrie, chucking a ball against the window, and having the ball bounce awkwardly right off his head.

Maybe the word "slapstick" introduces some confusion and room for interpretation, but the Marvel movies do utilize physical comedy. So from here on out, I'll avoid using "slapstick" and stick to "physical comedy." And I support using more physical comedy in live-action Superman TV and movies.

The Iron man one, i remember. I found it genuinely funny. Others weren't funny to me. But, i guess they were going for the physical humour as you said. Anyways, thanks for clarifying. With superman the titular character himself shouldn't be seen as some joke. Sure, he jokes around and shows his charisma. But, him being a joke himself isn't negotiable. Having said that, With clark kent persona there is a whole lot of room for doing things. The guy literally gets turned down by women all the time. That kind of routine still happens all the time. For me, if superman is bruce lee. The clark kent is jackie chan.

[DochaDocha]

I pick the Morrison Superman timeframe because he's still learning his powers and becoming more physically powerful, so there's going to be some growing pains. Iron Man showed this for Stark, Batman Begins and Mask of the Phantasm show this for Bruce Wayne, and even though I don't like that show, early seasons of Smallville illustrate this point. Young Superman goes through a lot of trial and error, and it can create some appreciation for the character if you see he has to learn how to be a wild bull in a china shop that doesn't smash and trample everything.

[Rightoya]

When your JL lineup includes a Barry who hasn't been superheroing for long and doesn't know the full extent of his powers or really know how to fight, the only thing keeping that meme from being accurate is Wonder Woman. The rest really should be trailing behind the two of them, with the other members on their level (J'onn, GL) being absent.

In fairness, this movie was making the JL look like a joke before Superman even showed up. Not helped by the big threat being Steppenwolf and some Parademons, a threat he or Wonder Woman can generally solo in an afternoon.

Superman wasn't running a gauntlet, he soloed the Justice League with ease and made them look like a useless joke not just in that scene, and even if we would say he just humiliated Wonder Woman and to a degree Flash while they had help by a few distractions is that bad enough already.

That the movie was all around hot garbage is true, but the general audience didn't know that Steppenwolf is a joke beyond bad CGI, what they know now is that the Justice League is a joke except Superman is there to carry them. That is of course a bit exaggerated, but the general audience also don't thinks oh Green Lantern wasn't there that's why, and they barely if at all even know about Martian Manhunter.