It seems, understandably in many ways, that it's hard to grasp how "like" is irrelevant to many decisions and outcomes. I'm sure for many people, Superman is business. Creatively, the easiest thing for me to point at is that Grant Morrison lasted longer and sold better on Batman.
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Another reason Pre-Crisis writers sit above the Post-Crisis writers is precisely because they worked to actually build up characters via showing them do incredible things via actual feats of skill and intellect where as the Post-Crisis writers tend to just find better established characters to feed to characters that don't measure up. It's lazy writing another issue plaguing DC comics for the past couple decades.
I'm not sure how, when or why Superman's fanbase became so welcoming to these depictions of him being lowered to raise up some character the writers of said character can't be bothered to put in the work to actually show in an impressive fashion. It's grade school writing from adults.
Last edited by The World; 10-30-2020 at 07:09 AM.
Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory
Yeah sure it's not completely limited to Post-Crisis but it's easily 90% in favor of Post-Crisis. The Pre-Crisis writers had to actually establish the parameters the Post-Crisis writers have been pitifully trying to manipulate. It wouldn't be impressive for Kara, or Bruce, or Jon to upstage Superman if the Pre-Crisis writers hadn't done the backbreaking work of making him an actually impressive figure to emulate or surpass.The Pre-Crisis writers were too busy trying to create while the Post-Crisis writers have been too busy trying to subvert and destroy hence the fanfic pieces Johns pumped out lately.
Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory
That's a weird misconception. DKR itself had nothing to do with post crisis and neither did Kara during Crisis... if we're talking about upstaging. Wolfman doubled down on that specific idea when he revisited that story. None of that reflects on his popularity outside of saying he's the guy to beat anyway, and doesn't really factor into how much they like him rather than how well they hope to sell other characters.
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Dc likes money.
You seriously need to watch wrestling. Both these characters can't job because they aren't popular enough. Beating manhunter wouldn't be news. It won't get any character over with the crowd. If puppy krypto beats baby groot that's jobbing. Cause groot is actually more over with crowd. Puppy krypto would be elevated.
Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-30-2020 at 09:04 AM.
I'd say more popular doesn't mean you don't job at all, but the more popular the character the more that other characters job to the popular one. None of this nonsense about how Batman can beat the entire JLA ever becomes a myth if Batman is a third-tier character.
I'd also say that on the opposite end of the spectrum, the less popular you are, the more you get picked as the victim of the Worf Effect for someone else.
The nicest thing I can say for Superman is that he has the reputation for physical toughness that he's an easy choice for the guy who has to be taken down a notch.
Superman has definitely been the biggest jobber post-Crisis. And, yes, For Tomorrow was definitely mopey. Azzarello's WW run was light years better.
Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.
I think things are too impersonal to consider how they view him as "dislike." They know he's important and continues to make money despite taking hits in popularity, they just mostly don't understand why. They are apathetic, not malicious, and in some ways that may be worse. But we don't have to take it as malicious, personal slights towards the character. And he's hardly alone in that boat, their entire catalogue of characters aren't consistently treated well aside from Batman.
And you think Batman is completely safe? The day he stops making money and the popularity of the unpleasant thing they gradually turned him into begins to fade, they will of course start to drop him like a sack of shit and try to seize on something else.
MOS did very well for a rebooted origin story movie despite it's reputation. I think that shows people were still hyped about Superman. Helps that it wasn't as bad as what came after
BvS though, yeah it made most of its money in its first week because it was set up as a big event. And it was, the two most well knows superheroes meeting together for the first time on the big screen after trying to get it off of the ground for decades? Plus Wonder Woman? Ed Wood could have made that thing and it likely would have done well the first week. All the thing had to be was a competent, entertaining blockbuster and it would have made as much money if not a little more than it did with a better reputation.