Does DC like Superman?

[KC]

He's been in three live action movies, at least four animated movies and is getting a t.v. show. What exactly is your idea of "many"?

and a good part of the mainstream Superman media that is produced includes subverting the character.

The only ones that did that are the Injustice games. If you're idea of subverting Superman is showing him as flawed and not able to so easily overcome his obstacles, then well over half of Superman stories since post crisis, at least, are "subverting him".

I wouldn't say that the animated movies are close to being mainstream not like the Movies and the Injustice games. And even then, that does not look like a lot.


The overly glum tone the movies went for is a lot more extreme than most other Superman stories.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't find that last sequence in any way funny so I am ok with them not using that type of humour.

Sure, that's basically just a small reference to something from the past history. It's basically a small wink or node. There is that instance where clark kicks the ground in all star superman.

Heck! Donner had superman wink at Camera. If you ask me slapstick humor would be far effective for clark than normal mcu style quippy humour . That's a more superman thing. Superman is meant to be confident dashing debonair zorro-esque figure who rescues damsels in distress.

[Gaius]

Also this. And I say that as someone who doesn't much like Injustice's story.

Game would have been a lot better if it was just a JL vs. Crime Syndicate game.

[KC]

Sure, that's basically just a small reference to something from the past history. It's basically a small wink or node. There is that instance where clark kicks the ground in all star superman.

Heck! Donner had superman wink at Camera. If you ask me slapstick humor would be far effective for clark than normal mcu style quippy humour . That's a more superman thing. Superman is meant to be confident dashing debonair zorro-esque figure who rescues damsels in distress.

Again, that seems really dumb to me. Slapstick would have to be a once in a blue moon thing with the right context for me to find it funny.

[Cyberstrike]

I think part of the problem is that DC/WB don't understand that every time they've tried to make Superman more like Batman it's completely backfired on them that is one reason I why IMO MoS is a PoS is that it tries to hard to make Clark Kent/Superman into a brooding troubled young man with daddy and identity issues, just like Bruce Wayne/Batman and then when the film fails to make a billion dollars then say "Send in Batman and the JLA!" then you get the never-ending disaster of Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice and Justice League.

Superman is not the same kind of hero as Batman and Batman is not the same kind of hero as Superman.

[SiegePerilous02]

No, one movie. The gloominess really only applies to BvS.

Since when? MOS has had the reputation since it came out. It's just more divisive and less severe than BvS, which doubled down on it.

I know you don't think it deserves the gloominess reputation, but plenty of people do. I think the gloomy reputation would be exaggerated on its own, but being connected to BvS isn't doing it any favors

T.V. is not inferior to film. I'd have thought the past decades would have shown this.

TV in general? Arguably you're right.

I wouldn't consider the cheap, cheesy CW shows the height of Golden Age tv though.

You have one game where he is brainwashed something that happens to every superhero at one point or another and which Superman is no stranger to. Another game where him being evil is treated as an aberration. These aren't even a fraction of Superman content. It's easy to look like a well they keep going to when you focus solely on the negative.

And it's easy to make everything seem fine when you keep downplaying the negative. Superman being no stranger to brainwashing isn't a good defense; if we're already annoyed with it, why should we suddenly be less annoyed with it now? Especially when the teaser trailer for the game features this kids character burning someone to death with his heat vision? And when the last mainstream video game appearances was him being evil. Yeah, the first game treated it as an aberration, but then they dropped the good Superman in the second game didn't they?

People are concerned this will gradually become less of an aberration and more the norm. Between Injustice having him go evil, this new Suicide Squad game having him being the only visible brainwashed one currently, and the aborted DCEU arc to have him be a brainwashed Darkseid minion (which may still show up in some form on HBO), it's all too much, especially back-to-back. The TV series will hopefully be nothing to sneeze at, but you're mistaken if you think DTVs have as much impact/visibility as any of this. What other Superman content is there?

The only ones that did that are the Injustice games. If you're idea of subverting Superman is showing him as flawed and not able to so easily overcome his obstacles, then well over half of Superman stories since post crisis, at least, are "subverting him".

He was flawed pre-Crisis. Honestly, probably more flawed in a more nuanced, interesting way than post-Crisis.

[manwhohaseverything]

Again, that seems really dumb to me. Slapstick would have to be a once in a blue moon thing with the right context for me to find it funny.

Oh! Well, different strokes for different people i guess. Clark screaming "earthquake" always gets me. All star and action comics both had alot of moments like that. Jackie chan does a lot slapstick as well. That's the guy i would model clark kent after. The whole drunken fist thing is riot.The guy would accidentally punch bad guys and acting like he got hit.

[manwhohaseverything]

That is your opinion, Appearances don't hurt characters.

It can and it has. There is a thing called reputation or pull factor. And Many don't like superman at all. That's fine. But, treating a your hero as second rate jobber hardly helps with reputation. He isn't neven badass villain and popular that way. So these appearances hurt. To make something popular, you need actually thought, creativity, luck, depth and entertainment quotient. I haven't seen anyone start an injustice superman fan club nor do i believe they are gonna in suicide squad game. So no,it isn't my opinion. It's my observation. It can be sure enough biased.Superman's pull factor is decreasing.If injustice helped superman that wouldn't be the case. But, it actually increased the process.

[NaVi]

That's more a knock on Snyder's inability (at the time) to tell a landmark story of a DC hero outside the context of Batman as opposed to a "DC problem. Snyder is an agent of DC, but he doesn't represent DC at large.

a comic does not come out overnight, there is a lot of planning behind it, especially in an important event, without forgetting that a comic is published if they give it approval. superman turned 75 and as a gift, dc made it clear that he is useless, stupid and that batman is the best.

[DochaDocha]

a comic does not come out overnight, there is a lot of planning behind it, especially in an important event, without forgetting that a comic is published if they give it approval. superman turned 75 and as a gift, dc made it clear that he is useless, stupid and that batman is the best.

Snyder was also on fire that time, and every Batman issue seemed to be killing it with the fans. For all we know, DC editorial promised him freedom to write a mini-series with minimal editorial interference.

[Rightoya]

DC only likes money, and at worst some individual writers dislike Superman.

[Rightoya]

If I was to throw some advice out there for Superman I'd probably say that people did seem to get a little kick out of watching him stomp the Justice League. Not that I'm necessarily condoning doing that again but maybe they should lean into the overpowered thing instead of running away from it. Worked for One Punch Man.

Well at least i definitively stop with reading DC comics for good if that happens, Bat God is bad enough already and humiliating or putting down other superheroes to make him look better, is the ugliest route i could imagine as idea for not just Superman but any of DC characters. Saitama is One Punch Man and it is the concept that he stomps on other characters, Superman is not DC but just a part of it and many share his main concept, which is not even stomping on other characters to begin with.

[SiegePerilous02]

I wouldn't really consider the JL fight making the other members look bad or Superman taking a crap on other characters, with the exception of Wonder Woman. The power level difference for everyone else is exactly what it should be.

Wonder Woman didn't have to lose, or even if she still did she definitely shouldn't have gone down that quickly. But people shouldn't be gasping and clutching their pearls if he walks over Aquaman, Cyborg and Batman in a fight. Like lol, what the hell did you think they were gonna do against a pissed off Kryptonian who isn't screwing around? It's not like we had J'onn, a GL or Captain Marvel there and also getting curb stomped, then we'd have some serious BS going on. But we didn't. Nobody in their right mind (fans or casuals) expects Aquaman or Cyborg to be as powerful as Superman, so nobody holds it against them if they are taken out quickly by him.

Again, the only debatable issue is Wonder Woman. With everyone else, that scene was just reaffirming how things are.

[Rightoya]

I wouldn't really consider the JL fight making the other members look bad or Superman taking a crap on other characters, with the exception of Wonder Woman. The power level difference for everyone else is exactly what it should be.

Wonder Woman didn't have to lose, or even if she still did she definitely shouldn't have gone down that quickly. But people shouldn't be gasping and clutching their pearls if he walks over Aquaman, Cyborg and Batman in a fight. Like lol, what the hell did you think they were gonna do against a pissed off Kryptonian who isn't screwing around? It's not like we had J'onn, a GL or Captain Marvel there and also getting curb stomped, then we'd have some serious BS going on. But we didn't. Nobody in their right mind (fans or casuals) expects Aquaman or Cyborg to be as powerful as Superman, so nobody holds it against them if they are taken out quickly by him.

Again, the only debatable issue is Wonder Woman. With everyone else, that scene was just reaffirming how things are.

The problem is not that Aquaman, Cyborg or Batman have individually no chance, the problem is what memes like this hint at:

Wonder Woman and the rest got not just easily soloed, they were like frozen as Superman hunted Flash, and Superman literally made the whole concept of a Justice League look like a joke in a move called Justice League. That they lacked the heavy hitters except Wonder Woman and Flash just helps to a very limited degree to explain the serious BS that was going on already.

[SiegePerilous02]

The problem is not that Aquaman, Cyborg or Batman have individually no chance, the problem is what memes like this hint to:

Wonder Woman and the rest got not just easily soloed, they were like frozen as Superman hunted Flash, and Superman literally made the whole concept of a Justice League look like a joke in a move called Justice League. That they lacked the heavy hitters except Wonder Woman and Flash just helps to a very limited degree to explain the serious BS that was going on already.

When your JL lineup includes a Barry who hasn't been superheroing for long and doesn't know the full extent of his powers or really know how to fight, the only thing keeping that meme from being accurate is Wonder Woman. The rest really should be trailing behind the two of them, with the other members on their level (J'onn, GL) being absent.

In fairness, this movie was making the JL look like a joke before Superman even showed up. Not helped by the big threat being Steppenwolf and some Parademons, a threat he or Wonder Woman can generally solo in an afternoon.