Page 1 of 13 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 189
  1. #1
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Metropolis USA
    Posts
    4,910

    Default Does DC like Superman?

    There's not one but TWO video games where he's a villain, the mainstream books seem to be stuck in some sort of limbo where no one knows what to do with them, he's not a major part of any of DC's "event" books (while they brought back the GA Batman for their next one), there's no new movies on the horizon while Batman is getting yet another movie franchise and even his main VILLAIN got a movie, no one seems to know what his current origin or history is, and the only "new" thing he's getting is a TV show that someone else outside of DC proper came up with. Even when they come up with something clever, like giving him a ten year old son, they botch it. Now he's just another teenager. While Damien still gets to be 12 or 13 or whatever age he is. The Arrow-verse seems to treat him with more respect than the comic book company that owns him. Their version of COIE understood what fans wanted to see and gave it to them.

    I don't think DC knows what to do with Superman. And I don't think they have for a long time now. Their Black Label line just seems to be an excuse to do more Batman books. I can't think of any Superman related projects on the horizon I'm excited for. Outside of the show and that's just because it puts him back on TV. Little over a decade since his last TV show ended. So all they know how to do with him is make TV shows. I know we keep bringing this up but it really does seem like Superman is somewhat directionless right now. Even things like action figures are mostly just Batman ones. There's an entire Batman section at Wal-Mart full of toys, costumes, cars; what have you. Wonder Woman has a movie coming out (eventually) and it's still hard to find any figures for that.

    What do you think.
    WAKANDA FOREVER! Chadwick Boseman 1976-2020 BLM

  2. #2
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    56,847

    Default

    I mean, I think they could use him better but I don't think I can unilaterally say that they dislike him. I think they still view him as one of their major IP's, they just mismanage him sometimes.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    25,056

    Default

    One of the worst things a fan can do is to assume the directions a company takes with a character are based on whether or not they like them. Liking a character rarely, if ever, influences how positively they are depicted in a story. Joe Quesada is an unabashed Spider-Man fan and he made One More Day.

    Al Ewing even criticized this mindset:

    "I do slightly resent the idea that sometimes pops up that if you put a character through hard times, that means you hate them. It's generally the reverse, that as writers, we save the juiciest and the toughest beats for the characters we want to show off a little."

    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...ors-roundtable

    And how many times has Superman played a major part in even comics? I think he can stand to sit this one out.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    17,685

    Default

    WB doesn't know what to do with him. Whether that is resulting in them not caring for the property at all who knows. But they can't get their mind wrapped around him, that's a certainty. DC down to the publishing department? I think there's an unfortunate amount of writers who don't care about him today, yeah. Maybe not dislike him but are apathetic toward him. But there's plenty others who do. Though I'd argue most who have ever had any shot to work on the guy and really wanted to already have had their run. Getting a small window into the company of late and how its a good ole' boys club, I'm sure there have been plenty before and still are now up and coming writers who would love to work on Superman and have ideas and who will never get the chance.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "ďYour boos mean nothing, Iíve seen what makes you cheer!Ē

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    1,557

    Default

    Yes, WB just is comfortable with what Superman brings to their table. The character sells a lot o merchandise with little to no effort, people who never read a comic on their life know what Superman is, they may not know a lot, but they know what he looks like and the most important, they knw his symbol. But WB also notice that their last efforts to make a Superman movie weren't successful, so instead of putting 120 million on a Superman movie that will not break the billion mark, they settle for selling t-shirts and hats with his symbol, and spend 60-70 million on a smaller movie, about some other DC character and sell a lot of merchandise they would not sell otherwise.

    The real problem, imo, is on the comics side of things, most on DC editorial that don't seem to push for good Superman stories as much as they could, but also, we almost never heard writers talking about their 5 year plan for Superman, we do about Batman. Wonder Woman is on the rise because times changed, and DC found itself with almost nothing to show in terms of diversity, the only thing they had is Wonder Woman, so WB and DC pushed it as much as they could, and they should do it, the character deserves to shine.

    Now, Black Label is really a punch on Superman'a face, the only thing he got there was DKR spin-off. Batman got countless titles, so did Harley Quinn and Joker, Wonder Woman got the Dead Earth story and Historia apparently will be a big thing too. Either none of the writers had a Superman pitch, or the Black Label editorial wasn't interested in one, probably a combination of both.

    I believe, that what Superman needs, on the comics side of things, is an editorial and creative team, that itead of holding to the status quo for apathy or fear, actually like the character and wants to tell new and fun stories. Not stories about what Superman is stands for, descontruction or meta analysis, but Superman stories.
    The only writer currently who really seems to want to write about Superman is Mark Russell, but DC don't let him come near the main books, just one-shots and mini-arcs.
    Last edited by Ra-El; 10-29-2020 at 11:33 AM.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    For the most part I think that with the regime change we are set up for a better direction. I rather enjoyed SUPERMAN YEAR ONE for the most part (some of the liberties taken with his powers were weird though). It was a marked improvement over SUPERMAN UNCHAINED.

    Hopefully the end of all this on we are oh dark and edgey stuff is around the corner. I have never found Justice League as unreadable as it has been with Scott Snyder.
    Last edited by Stanlos; 10-29-2020 at 11:32 AM.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,313

    Default

    Superman is an IP that can potentially make DC money. I assume DC likes money first, and will use Superman to make them money, even if the stable of Superman fans are largely unhappy with it.

    As for the creators who tell Superman stories, I think a lot of the creators who use Superman don't give two craps about him, which is why we get a lot of stories with Superman we don't like.

    In short, gotta separate the individuals from DC at large.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    One of the worst things a fan can do is to assume the directions a company takes with a character are based on whether or not they like them. Liking a character rarely, if ever, influences how positively they are depicted in a story. Joe Quesada is an unabashed Spider-Man fan and he made One More Day.

    Al Ewing even criticized this mindset:

    "I do slightly resent the idea that sometimes pops up that if you put a character through hard times, that means you hate them. It's generally the reverse, that as writers, we save the juiciest and the toughest beats for the characters we want to show off a little."

    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...ors-roundtable

    And how many times has Superman played a major part in even comics? I think he can stand to sit this one out.
    Well, there have been some cases where we KNOW that Dan DiDio didn't like a particular character because of what he expressly stated. For example, we know that DiDio DiD not like Wonder Woman so that isn't an assumption. I am not aware of any comments like that for Superman. The closest I encountered was Dan's dislike of Linda Danvers Supergirl.

  9. #9
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    216

    Default

    DC hates Superman and it shows. when superman was the god of comics (most popular, best known, best selling) they release a comic in which they destroy and humiliate superman to make batman great, but now that batman is the god and superman the one who needs help, No I see them do the same, on the contrary they continue to destroy the image of superman to further magnify batman (injustice). The story of the end of the world clock that many see as a love letter to superman, but almost does not appear and when it does it is in a coma or receiving a beating, Dr. Manhattan's speech a beautiful love letter, where he says that Superman is the 1st hero (it is not love, it is a fact, and a position that he loses a week later in favor of ww), that everything revolves around him (it is not love, it is a fact, he created the genre of superheroes, and a week later he loses his position in favor of Batman) who will have trips with a green giant who is stronger than Doomsday (DC says that a character from another company is stronger, even knowing the rivalry between the fans, to see Who is stronger). Metal, so far what we have seen of superman, is that they capture him, torture him, the heroes arrive and save him, 5 minutes later, superman is captured again and tortured and rescued by the heroes, as you can see a great role. Without forgetting the cinema, the first meeting between superman and batman, superman receives the most humiliating beating of superhero cinema, the first film of the JL, ww and batman create and unite the team and are in the entire film, superman appears 5 minutes , the film is a failure, but it is not the fault of ww or batman who were in the whole film, the fault is superman who has 5m. the actors who play superman are totally unknown, the actors who play batman are famous stars.

  10. #10

    Default

    Warner brothers neither likes nor dislikes Superman, what they like is money. And money comes from selling things that have a demand. Whether it makes fans like us seethe or nor it's clear by the success of things like The Boys (not wb but still) and Injustice that there is demand for "evil Superman." So i don't fault them, although i do have concern even as someone who's enjoyed plenty of evil superman tales, that going down that road too many times, especially with a version that's distinctly supposed to be the real superman, not a stand in like Ultraman or Homelander, could hurt the brand and make selling heroic Superman more diffilcult.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 10-29-2020 at 11:59 AM.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,963

    Default

    These are corporations they don't have likes or dislikes when it comes to their products just risk vs reward and the simple fact of the matter is they've risked quite a lot on Superman too limited or poor returns. That's why they're going for the low budget tv show angle because they've had modest success with that in the past in regards to Supes. Granted the version that's going to show up in Lois & Superman is starting off from a jobber position but that's another discussion for another day. Like wise Batman's continued success is what nets him more "stuff" so to speak.

    As for the comics, I think the fact that you think giving him a 10 year old son is clever shows what a poor state the character is in. The Post-Crisis writers drained all sense of adventure or fun out of the character and so people are banking everything on the kid being an "exciting" element. They've gone through purging so much of the characters charm to try and convert him into some kind of generic American male from the heartland character rather than the stalwart ,adventurous, and quirky guy his creators intended for him to be. Now we're at the point where Superman even standing up for himself is a controversial statement.

    But I really don't care much anymore about whether Superman sinks or swims in the comics or whatever I'm much more worried about DC in general. In the whole time I've been reading from the company I don't think it has ever been in as bad a shape as it currently looks to be. From the outside in it looks like Batmania is at a fever pitch and yet even DC's insatiable appetite for more Batman seems muted in comparison to the roaring success Marvel's full court press with it's wide array of properties. DC looks stuck in a loop relying increasingly on Batman while Johns continues to try and rewrite every Moore story that DC has access to only to pump out a story most people seem to forget about with in a few months and everyone ends up defaulting back to the original story.

    While DC is stuck seemingly in an endless feedback loop of trying to expand on the success of modern Batman wangstfest, Japan has pumped out the critically acclaimed My Hero Academia which has unanimously proven that optimism isn't a lost cause. From there you have Captain America and Spiderman proving you can have background tragedy WITHOUT letting it overcome you something that DC forgot was possible after COIE. Poor Tim Drake got screwed over one things shifted to the aughts and John's and co though his life needed 2000% more tragedy for him to be an appealing character. Ripped his social life apart, killed off his dad, and divorced him from anything even resembling common life so he could be an angsty teen's(man-child's) power fantasy only for him to immediately get upstaged the infinitely more edgy Jason Todd and Damian Wayne who are able to pull the trope off far more effortlessly. Tim is a timeline of everything wrong with both DC desperate attempt to emulate Marvel and it's sad post-crisis infatuation with anti-hero's and villains, a period which has seen Batman, The Joker, and Harley Quinn become the trifecta of greed and irresponsibility.

    If I was to throw some advice out there for Superman I'd probably say that people did seem to get a little kick out of watching him stomp the Justice League. Not that I'm necessarily condoning doing that again but maybe they should lean into the overpowered thing instead of running away from it. Worked for One Punch Man.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  12. #12
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    Marvel has out-Superman'd Superman with Captain America to the point of humiliation. And they didn't even have to job his peers a la Whedon's Justice League. WBs problem is exactly its tunnel vision for dollars combined with its social contracts enabling for to get and screw up everything yet STILL get a multi-million dollar parachute (where they continued to spread their suckage).

    They should have hired a programme manager rather than let the visual talent give us BatPunisher sick with envy over a mopey, impotent Mopey Superman.

  13. #13
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    789

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    There's not one but TWO video games where he's a villain, the mainstream books seem to be stuck in some sort of limbo where no one knows what to do with them, he's not a major part of any of DC's "event" books (while they brought back the GA Batman for their next one), there's no new movies on the horizon while Batman is getting yet another movie franchise and even his main VILLAIN got a movie, no one seems to know what his current origin or history is, and the only "new" thing he's getting is a TV show that someone else outside of DC proper came up with. Even when they come up with something clever, like giving him a ten year old son, they botch it. Now he's just another teenager. While Damien still gets to be 12 or 13 or whatever age he is. The Arrow-verse seems to treat him with more respect than the comic book company that owns him. Their version of COIE understood what fans wanted to see and gave it to them.

    I don't think DC knows what to do with Superman. And I don't think they have for a long time now. Their Black Label line just seems to be an excuse to do more Batman books. I can't think of any Superman related projects on the horizon I'm excited for. Outside of the show and that's just because it puts him back on TV. Little over a decade since his last TV show ended. So all they know how to do with him is make TV shows. I know we keep bringing this up but it really does seem like Superman is somewhat directionless right now. Even things like action figures are mostly just Batman ones. There's an entire Batman section at Wal-Mart full of toys, costumes, cars; what have you. Wonder Woman has a movie coming out (eventually) and it's still hard to find any figures for that.

    What do you think.
    I wouldn't say that even TV know what to do with him since the fact that his last three TV appearances have just been for Relationship drama's and that's been it. Hardly the paragon for truth and justice when it seems he's going to be a stay at home dad that only comes back to action because melissa benoist has had enough. Also giving him a 10 year old kid wasn't new or clever, it's a tried and tested formula that's worked in media for decades, especially when they've run out of ideas.

    But it's as you seem to note in this post, I don't think it's that they hate superman. It's just that they don't know what to do with pretty much all DC comics character besides the Bat family so they place all their chips on him.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    2,328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Yes, WB just is comfortable with what Superman brings to their table. The character sells a lot o merchandise with little to no effort, people who never read a comic on their life know what Superman is, they may not know a lot, but they know what he looks like and the most important, they knw his symbol. But WB also notice that their last efforts to make a Superman movie weren't successful, so instead of putting 120 million on a Superman movie that will not break the billion mark, they settle for selling t-shirts and hats with his symbol, and spend 60-70 million on a smaller movie, about some other DC character and sell a lot of merchandise they would not sell otherwise.

    The real problem, imo, is on the comics side of things, most on DC editorial that don't seem to push for good Superman stories as much as they could, but also, we almost never heard writers talking about their 5 year plan for Superman, we do about Batman. Wonder Woman is on the rise because times changed, and DC found itself with almost nothing to show in terms of diversity, the only thing they had is Wonder Woman, so WB and DC pushed it as much as they could, and they should do it, the character deserves to shine.

    Now, Black Label is really a punch on Superman'a face, the only thing he got there was DKR spin-off. Batman got countless titles, so did Harley Quinn and Joker, Wonder Woman got the Dead Earth story and Historia apparently will be a big thing too. Either none of the writers had a Superman pitch, or the Black Label editorial wasn't interested in one, probably a combination of both.

    I believe, that what Superman needs, on the comics side of things, is an editorial and creative team, that itead of holding to the status quo for apathy or fear, actually like the character and wants to tell new and fun stories. Not stories about what Superman is stands for, descontruction or meta analysis, but Superman stories.
    The only writer currently who really seems to want to write about Superman is Mark Russell, but DC don't let him come near the main books, just one-shots and mini-arcs.
    Another thing to note on Black Label is apparently it sounds from interviews it seems many of the projects were announced before most of the teams even had even started working on them but announced anyway so they could simply have a big impressive slate. Think Damned only came out when it did because it had been in development for years.

  15. #15
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    204

    Default

    Well, if what Mark Waid has said in this Man of Steel interview is any indication:


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Waid View Post
    Actually weíre not, but weíre in a time where the people who are in charge of that character believe thatís the only version that can appeal to a mass audience. Thatís where I grit my teeth Ė again, Iím not the insider I once was, but I still have my ear to the ground. Iíve talked over and over to the people at DC over the last ten years, and I know what WB's feeling is about Superman, which is that heís stupid, heís corny and why canít he be more like Batman?
    No, they don't. IMO, to DC/WB Superman is more like an obligation and an easy way to make money, and it shows.

    Also, I'd say that between his first appearance and Routh playing the role again, there was a period where CW Superman was just as underwhelming as modern comic book Superman often is.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •