Does DC like Superman?

[manwhohaseverything]

I would say Fully armoured diana would be awesome if she's going for defence, rather than finesse. Moreover, i find super-wonderwoman, generic. Heck! I say superman himself needs a power presentation change. There is nothing visually pleasing about superman's abilities and how it's presented as of now.Wonder woman is magic. It doesn't require much logic(superheroes largely themselves don't) . Her being injured by man's weapons such as swords, arrows, bullets, guns.. Etc. Is pretty cool. Heck! I want superman to have some form of weakness that isn't just a rock. The guy gets beaten by "i threw a rock at him" wisdom. Sheesh! That's just pathetic.

[Agent Z]

I would say Fully armoured diana would be awesome if she's going for defence, rather than finesse. Moreover, i find super-wonderwoman, generic. Heck! I say superman himself needs a power presentation change. There is nothing visually pleasing about superman's abilities and how it's presented as of now.Wonder woman is magic. It doesn't require much logic(superheroes largely themselves don't) . Her being injured by man's weapons such as swords, arrows, bullets, guns.. Etc. Is pretty cool. Heck! I want superman to have some form of weakness that isn't just a rock. The guy gets beaten by "i threw a rock at him" wisdom. Sheesh! That's just pathetic.

No that's a dumb explanation. Being magical doesn't mean you are automatically immune to swords, arrows and bullets.

[manwhohaseverything]

No that's a dumb explanation. Being magical doesn't mean you are automatically immune to swords, arrows and bullets.

Didn't you read? I said her being injured by weapons is cool.She is badass like that.I also said, superman's weakness to the kryptonite is lame. K-metal needs to be changed up as a concept.

[NaVi]

And i asked you so what, Green Lantern is not a reality warper and his powers have often enough clear limits?

Wonder Woman's lasso couldn't even hold DC's poor man's Hulk, that says it all.

Superman has eye beams that have at times an absolute crazy range and a kind of invulnerability that laughs off bullets and anything but crazy powerful weapons, why the heck would he need a melee weapon or a shield?

At range Superman, close up Wonder Woman, seems very fair to me except that they would in the most decades write it in a way that he don't truly loses regardless of the range, or even asspull a silly retcon afterwards like they kind of did with Sacrifice.

Superman don't has priority because there is no magical rule that earlier characters have the right to make later characters look bad i am aware of, and if anything trades Superman his weaknesses for a weakness to bullets and weapons of the piercing kind, and i somewhat doubt many Superman fans would applaud your idea of Superman becoming a martial arts and armed fighting master who got since early childhood supernaturally trained by Jonathan and Martha Kent lol. Them having the same general power level should be a lot easier than the apparent incomptence of DC makes it look like.

1: I am not saying that superman has to be invincible because yes, I am only saying that if there is an invincible being the one who has won that position is superman, in general I think that if there is not one being invincible is the best for everyone.
2: superman ended up on his knees, by the simple presence of kryptonite, or magic, tell me once ww ended on his knees by the simple presence of a bullet.
3: the powers of green lantern have limits, like those of superman, the difference is that superman can be defeated by a stone, green lantern cannot.
4: heat vision can be stopped with the shield, bracelets even with the sword, tell me how does Superman stop a sword.
5: kryptonite (green, red, gold, etc, it can be turned into a sword, bullets, etc), magic, red sun, telepathy, some geeks praying on a planet (superman lost his powers for that reason geeks) tell me a unique character of Top-notch comic that has that many weaknesses and is also so effective.

[Rightoya]

1: I am not saying that superman has to be invincible because yes, I am only saying that if there is an invincible being the one who has won that position is superman, in general I think that if there is not one being invincible is the best for everyone.
2: superman ended up on his knees, by the simple presence of kryptonite, or magic, tell me once ww ended on his knees by the simple presence of a bullet.
3: the powers of green lantern have limits, like those of superman, the difference is that superman can be defeated by a stone, green lantern cannot.
4: heat vision can be stopped with the shield, bracelets even with the sword, tell me how does Superman stop a sword.
5: kryptonite (green, red, gold, etc, it can be turned into a sword, bullets, etc), magic, red sun, telepathy, some geeks praying on a planet (superman lost his powers for that reason geeks) tell me a unique character of Top-notch comic that has that many weaknesses and is also so effective.

1. I agree that invincible characters are a very bad concept, at least outside of parodies.
2. Bullets and weapons of the piercing kind are a lot more common than kryptonite, so of course the effect should be much smaller, what you demand would end up with Wonder Woman losing to any other street thug.
3. Green Lantern can get defeated in ways that Superman can not defeated, because most of his powers come usually from his ring.
4. Besides the obvious solutions like dodging, or even better just staying out of range, we could take a look at the comics:

5. Why should i do that, in which way is that of relevance?

[Vordan]

What the hell is even going on in this thread? Might as well just lock it at this point.

Edit: Yeah this dumb argument is YouTube comments tier. Power levels? Supes is invincible? Seriously guys? None of that **** matters. Supes can be a pathetic jobber or an invincible demigod or anything inbetween the two depending on whatever the story needs. Bendis has shown him getting worked over in his stuff so Supes being OP is an eyerolling claim. Supes has been a side character in Death Metal with Batman and WW being more involved (which I’m fine with), he hasn’t been throwing planets at BWLs and Perpetua to solve the conflict by himself, so he hasn’t been an invincible Deus Ex Machina there.

[Steel Inquisitor]

What the hell is even going on in this thread? Might as well just lock it at this point.

Edit: Yeah this dumb argument is YouTube comments tier. Power levels? Supes is invincible? Seriously guys? None of that **** matters. Supes can be a pathetic jobber or an invincible demigod or anything inbetween the two depending on whatever the story needs. Bendis has shown him getting worked over in his stuff so Supes being OP is an eyerolling claim. Supes has been a side character in Death Metal with Batman and WW being more involved (which I’m fine with), he hasn’t been throwing planets at BWLs and Perpetua to solve the conflict by himself, so he hasn’t been an invincible Deus Ex Machina there.

It matters but how Superman is seen within the comic and outside them by readers who value how he's presented. What stories need is to make sense and have things like tension, within its universe. Superman can be written as losing or overpowering an opponent and be written consistently. Comics have grown from the Golden and Silver Age were the audience didn't know what to expect from a comic book story. DC liking Superman is a subject which involves more than what's going on in the current comics.

[Vordan]

It matters but how Superman is seen within the comic and outside them by readers who value how he's presented. What stories need is to make sense and have things like tension, within its universe. Superman can be written as losing or overpowering an opponent and be written consistently. Comics have grown from the Golden and Silver Age were the audience didn't know what to expect from a comic book story. DC liking Superman is a subject which involves more than what's going on in the current comics.

He isn’t though. No one is. You only get that (sometimes) when you have one creator handling a property. Look at Hulk or Thor. Look at Batman or WW. None of them are written consistently as their fanbases will be all too happy to complain about. You’re asking for something that’s not possible in Big 2 comics.

[NaVi]

1. I agree that invincible characters are a very bad concept, at least outside of parodies.
2. Bullets and weapons of the piercing kind are a lot more common than kryptonite, so of course the effect should be much smaller, what you demand would end up with Wonder Woman losing to any other street thug.
3. Green Lantern can get defeated in ways that Superman can not defeated, because most of his powers come usually from his ring.
4. Besides the obvious solutions like dodging, or even better just staying out of range, we could take a look at the comics:

5. Why should i do that, in which way is that of relevance?

green lantern can be defeated in different ways that superman cannot, but the opposite is also true, the difference is that superman has weaknesses that suppose an instantaneous defeat if they are in the hands of beings of his level. bullets are more common than kryptonite, but a green lantern a superman etc with a gun does not mean the defeat of ww, give them kryptonite and superman is dead, without forgetting that kryptonite is so common in superman comics, that It seems as if all Krypton ended up on Earth, I'm sure there are a thousand times more examples of Superman vs Kryptonite than WWV vs Bullets. I asked you about a character with weaknesses for two very simple reasons.
1: to prove that superman has so many weaknesses, as the heavyweights of DC and MARVEL together.
2: to demonstrate how vulnerable superman is, any villain or level hero can obtain kryptonite or red sun, practically ensuring the defeat of superman, magic and telepathy are rarer but they serve to demonstrate how useless superman is against this class of villains, especially telepaths, not only do they defeat him, they turn him into a puppet, I'm sure there are a thousand times more examples of controlled superman than the rest of DC and MARVEL heroes together, a heore so vulnerable to telepathy is not a hero is a threat

[Powerboy]

green lantern can be defeated in different ways that superman cannot, but the opposite is also true, the difference is that superman has weaknesses that suppose an instantaneous defeat if they are in the hands of beings of his level. bullets are more common than kryptonite, but a green lantern a superman etc with a gun does not mean the defeat of ww, give them kryptonite and superman is dead, without forgetting that kryptonite is so common in superman comics, that It seems as if all Krypton ended up on Earth, I'm sure there are a thousand times more examples of Superman vs Kryptonite than WWV vs Bullets. I asked you about a character with weaknesses for two very simple reasons.
1: to prove that superman has so many weaknesses, as the heavyweights of DC and MARVEL together.
2: to demonstrate how vulnerable superman is, any villain or level hero can obtain kryptonite or red sun, practically ensuring the defeat of superman, magic and telepathy are rarer but they serve to demonstrate how useless superman is against this class of villains, especially telepaths, not only do they defeat him, they turn him into a puppet, I'm sure there are a thousand times more examples of controlled superman than the rest of DC and MARVEL heroes together, a heore so vulnerable to telepathy is not a hero is a threat

In fairness, didn't Max Lord spend months slowly building up that kind of control over Superman? Also, IO do remember the early Byrne stories where he was highly resistant to mind control though not invulnerable to it.

I'm seeing stuff where WW nerfs Superman but then something where it happens the other way or where Batman nerfs her. The most surprising one was a story where WW totally stomped Batman to the point he tried using an ancient Amazon supplication ritual to try stopping her. Translation: he was more or less begging. Everybody gets humiliated. Maybe it's some more than others but we tend to notice it more the more we like the character.

[Gaius]

In fairness, didn't Max Lord spend months slowly building up that kind of control over Superman? Also, IO do remember the early Byrne stories where he was highly resistant to mind control though not invulnerable to it.

I'm seeing stuff where WW nerfs Superman but then something where it happens the other way or where Batman nerfs her. The most surprising one was a story where WW totally stomped Batman to the point he tried using an ancient Amazon supplication ritual to try stopping her. Translation: he was more or less begging. Everybody gets humiliated. Maybe it's some more than others but we tend to notice it more the more we like the character.

The real answer.

[Ra-El]

In fairness, didn't Max Lord spend months slowly building up that kind of control over Superman? Also, IO do remember the early Byrne stories where he was highly resistant to mind control though not invulnerable to it.

I'm seeing stuff where WW nerfs Superman but then something where it happens the other way or where Batman nerfs her. The most surprising one was a story where WW totally stomped Batman to the point he tried using an ancient Amazon supplication ritual to try stopping her. Translation: he was more or less begging. Everybody gets humiliated. Maybe it's some more than others but we tend to notice it more the more we like the character.

It depends a lot on the writer actually. If Rucka is writing we can be sure that Diana will look good and on top, if is Morrison and Snyder we know that Batman will solve it, Superman if it's Waid, maybe.

[Gaius]

It depends a lot on the writer actually. If Rucka is writing we can be sure that Diana will look good and on top, if is Morrison and Snyder we know that Batman will solve it, Superman if it's Waid, maybe.

Taylor for Superman.

[NaVi]

In fairness, didn't Max Lord spend months slowly building up that kind of control over Superman? Also, IO do remember the early Byrne stories where he was highly resistant to mind control though not invulnerable to it.

I'm seeing stuff where WW nerfs Superman but then something where it happens the other way or where Batman nerfs her. The most surprising one was a story where WW totally stomped Batman to the point he tried using an ancient Amazon supplication ritual to try stopping her. Translation: he was more or less begging. Everybody gets humiliated. Maybe it's some more than others but we tend to notice it more the more we like the character.

You are right, every character is humiliated at one time or another and of course we notice it more if it is a character we care about. So a very simple question to you and everyone who reads the comment. who has been controlled the most and turned into a villain?
superman
wonder woman
batman
green lantern
Flash
aquaman
Cyborq

[LifeIsILL]

I don't think main continuity Superman has ever killed an innocent person while under mind-control.

Batman on the other hand, has killed many innocents while under mind-control.